Ep 104 - Are Catholic Conferences Worth It? SEEKing Answers with Dan McNally

James Caldwell (00:00.942)
Hello all, welcome to another episode of The Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and today we have a episode that I recorded with Dan McNally, who I know you've heard several times here on the podcast, but this episode in particular was about Sikh. We did a special recording for them back in October, and this was before the Sikh Conference in St. Louis, Missouri, which occurred this past January, from January 1st through the 5th, I believe it was, in St. Louis.

And for everything I have heard and read, Dan actually went to seek this year as well. But there was, I think, over 22,000 Catholics there. And just from what I get from what I've heard, it was incredible and tremendous speakers, but no adoration and mass and just a tremendous amount of spiritual growth that took place. So this, again, was an episode that Dan and I put together for them back in October. Just talked about the conference. Seek.

the mission of SICK, what they look to achieve with their parent group organization is FOCUS, which for those of you who are not familiar with FOCUS, we talk a little bit about that as well, and the importance that they are, especially in the college campuses and college ministry and things like that. So again, this was an episode that we talked about SICK. A very fruitful day, it kind of goes into his past experiences with SICK. He had been in the previous years as well. I think he went once or twice.

But just the importance of connection, especially for men, I'm going to a conference like that. I think it can be very overwhelming. Now, why is it important? Why should we even go to these spiritual retreats, these spiritual conferences, these Catholic conferences? Why is that important? And what do we hope to gain? What should we look for? So I know excess 90 was there as well. I believe they had a booth, they've been posting videos all over about it. So very fruitful conversation that Dan and I went into we talked about

Some fears that men might have especially living out the Catholic faith, especially for young men as well So for those younger listeners, I think this is very applicable to you So I hope you all enjoy and I want to give you guys a bit of a heads up Starting next week. My family and are going to California to visit my family, which we're very excited about so we'll have a couple episodes Geared up for you and ready to go then but I want to sort of take a step back I have a couple interviews coming up this week at the time. I'm recording this

James Caldwell (02:27.15)
and I'm just gonna enjoy my vacation out in California, escape the bitter cold. I think it was five degrees by the time I started recording this anyways. So we're looking forward to that. So please pray for safe travels for us when we leave. But again, this is an episode regarding the SEEK Conference of 2024 in St. Louis, Missouri. I hope you all enjoy. Please click that subscribe button if you're listening to this on YouTube.

please just click subscribe if you are listening to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, anywhere you get your podcast, really helps grow the show. And more importantly, make sure you tell a fellow friend about the podcast. Thank you again so much for listening and I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome to the Manly Catholic. In this podcast, we will inspire, challenge, and equip all men to become the men they were created to be. Join us as we journey together.

to become the best versions of ourselves and strive to change our communities one man at a time. Hello, oh, welcome to another episode of The Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and back again, as you could probably guess by the giggle. This is Dan McNally. Your guest. Dan, welcome back to The Manly Catholic. Thank you very much. How are you doing today? Um, good. Good answer. Thank you.

before we dive in. Very special episode, we'll be talking about Seek, we'll be talking about Focus, we'll be talking about their upcoming conference in January 1st through the 5th. Saint Louis. Oh, they love hanging out near the New Year's. Feast of Our Lady, Mother of God. Yeah, they do that. Midwest, because Mr. Dan has been to a Seek conference. What? But before we dive into that.

Okay. We're going to start with the same Michael prayer. Now we've done this prayer on this podcast before, but I have to, I have to clarify again, cause I forgot. Do we do safeguard or do we do protection protection? Okay. I can get on board with that. Say Michael, the archangel defend us in battle, bear protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.

James Caldwell (04:48.682)
May God rebuke him we humbly pray and do thou o prince of the heavenly host by the power of God Cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen Did you hear that Seeking oh Well, okay, I don't know maybe yes Okay, so let's talk about okay. So let's talk about Focus sure who puts on the seek conference So Dan tell us tell our listeners

about focus. Well, I am not, I am not affiliated with focus in any way. Um, my understanding is that focus is an acronym and it's fellowship of Catholic university students and they have an outreach and a number of college campuses across the country. I don't know if across the globe is accurate. I should have prepared that information beforehand, but you can Google that. I have many friends who are focused missionaries. Basically they're, they, uh, kind of their job is they sort of

there's a lot of fundraising to do because really their job over the course of the school year is to minister to college age students. Right. And so they generally live on college campuses. Sorry. I'm not, I was never a focused missionary, so I'm probably going to butcher the explanation, but basically they live on college campuses. They, they, uh, I think, I feel like it's usually teams of like two or three guys, two or three girls with a lead team member. And they set up Bible studies, they do fun events, they put together just a lot of, um,

really beautiful ways for college age young people to encounter Christ, um, in community, um, in event settings and liturgy, all, all sorts of different ways. They just bring, uh, they bring the Lord to the college campus and I've just, they've done a lot of good. I've seen a lot of good. I have a lot of friends who are focused missionaries. Um, and it's a beautiful life. Uh, I mean life, I make it sound like they do it forever. Usually, uh, when people are focused missionaries, it's, I think two years at least is the, is the,

primary commitment that somebody makes, but they can stay on for a little while longer. They can be like a team lead and things like that. But yeah, just doing the Lord's work on the college campus, I would say is the simple way to say it. Yeah, I mean, their mission statement is to know Christ Jesus and fulfill his great commission. And obviously, Jesus said, "'Go out and make disciples of all nations.'" So focus, they strive to form Catholic missionaries rooted in church teaching, prayer, scripture, and evangelization.

James Caldwell (07:12.258)
They go out into the world, invite people into a joyful life with Christ, and walk with them as they grow in faith. And I remember when my wife and I were in Boulder, Colorado, at St. Thomas Aquinas Parish, which was attached to CU Boulder, which is a very secular university, for those of you who don't know. But they had a very- James, what does secular mean? Secular means basically non-Christian. Yeah, worldly, right? Worldly. And-

They had a very strong focus presence over CU Boulder, very active in the parish and then obviously on the university level as well. But yeah, especially the parish that was attached to, they always had events for design for college students and they really tried to make the outreach, especially being in CU Boulder, which is a beautiful place to be, a lot of kind of a destination university, people from all over the country come. So, but also unfortunately,

which I think was one of the main missions that Focus had been put together, which is now 25 years, is to have students, because too often they go to college and they lose their faith. So having that firm foundation rooted in scripture, prayer, community, helps them keep the faith. I almost don't want to ask this question because I feel like we'll get too off track. It might be a completely different episode topic, but I'm like, why do you think that is? Why do you think it's so easy for people with college age to...

to go off to college and lose their faith. It's just like a lack of catechesis. Is it the attractiveness of certain cultural things on a college campus that is just overwhelming to maybe what little.

little root has been, has taken of their faith in high school or like, I don't know. Maybe it's a rhetorical question. I think it is a good question though, because I mean it really is. It's like, why does focus need to exist? Yeah, no, exactly. And I think a lot of times, I mean, I'm speaking for myself, but even just in high school, you know, we, we kind of base our faith based on what our family grew.

James Caldwell (09:17.302)
And a lot of times, if you didn't really grow up in a culture or environment where you were really challenged in your faith or you really didn't have to dig deep, you think that everyone believes the same things that you do. So why dig deep? Why establish a firm foundation? So I think that's why. But yeah, I think it's a combination, like you said too. I mean, the appeal, obviously you're on your own for the first time, you have all this independence. If you end up obviously traveling away from home, there's temptations everywhere, especially as a...

you know, as a young man, which we'll be focusing more on, on men in this podcast, but for a young man, you know, there's, um, you know, there's fraternities, there's parties, there's sports, there's intramurals, there's, you can stay up all night, play video games. Don't tell me what to do. Well, I think focus provides like a safe place for those who were catechized well by their family, by their church, whatever in high school, like I was a high school theology teacher. So there's, you look at the kids in the class and you're like, all right, I know.

who is probably gonna survive and who's probably not. So it's like it provides that place for those who wanna continue to cultivate their faith to grow. But I mean, it also is outreach for those who are Catholic or even those who have no foundation in the Catholic faith, but perhaps have been curious or want to know a little bit more. So there's a lot of outreach in that sense as well. But I think it's really amazing that they're on so many, as you say, secular campuses for almost, it's almost like an embassy.

It's like a Vatican embassy on a college campus of like, oh, I go here. And like, this is a place for me to be safe as a citizen of heaven. Absolutely. Yeah, kind of cool. So another thing that Focus puts on, and I was just looking, this is the 25th year, it said. Is it a Focus or a Seek? It says Conference now in its 25th year. Sweet. Which is crazy, I had no idea. 25 years ago. So they put on a conference. Yeah, they put on a conference.

every year, it's called the Seek Conference. And Dan, you went to the Seek. First of all, let's back up. What is the Seek Conference? All of these focuses this incredible mission on campus, creating disciples, creating missionaries that go out into the world. Then they put on this conference. So what is a Seek Conference? Let's start with that. Well, I will tell you how I was invited to a Seek Conference. So my brother's a priest. I don't know if I've said that on the podcast before, but my brother is a Catholic priest.

James Caldwell (11:35.778)
And he sent me a text one day and he said, Hey, I'm going to the seek conference in January. Tonight is the last night to get like discounted rate for the tickets. And I was like, when do I have to decide by? And he's like, midnight. I was like, okay, you really need to get better at like giving me some time to make a decision. I'm like, where is this? What is this? What is going on? So I had to do a little deep dive within the course of a few hours. Um, and

I think it's honestly just to really boil it down. It's an opportunity for those communities that Focus has already created on college campuses, but also just for anyone who's college age, generally to go and kind of be reinvigorated in that mission that James explained a minute ago, right? Just go and be surrounded by 15,000, 20,000, you know, other Catholic college students and realize, oh, I'm not alone.

in what I'm trying to do at my college campus. There are people everywhere. There's a verse in scripture that I'm not gonna quote well. But there's one that basically it's an encouragement. I think it's St. Paul and it's an encouragement that says, I think it's actually the one that's in evening prayer that goes, or maybe it's a night prayer that goes, your enemy, the devil is prowling like a lion looking for a prey. The next line after that one is, for remember that your brothers around the world are fighting the same fight that you're fighting. Again, that's not an exact translation,

kind of Google that quote if you want to save me here, throw me a life, uh, I got to like preserve it. But I mean, I think that's kind of what it boils down to is this is a conference where you can go and educate yourself on your faith, be surrounded by people, your age, your stage of life, uh, who want what you want essentially to, to follow Christ in the same context that you're following Christ, right? You know, you can have mentors, uh, in the faith.

who are a different generation from you that are significantly older, or you can have people that maybe you're even mentoring that are significantly younger, but to be surrounded by people in your stage of life who want the same things that you want in regards to their relationship with Jesus Christ. I was surrounded by 15,000 people at that conference and that was pretty great. Now granted, I was a little bit older than most of the people at that conference, but I was in PT school. I was going back to school. So.

James Caldwell (13:52.438)
I mean, technically I was a college student, so that was kind of my state of life at the time. So it was kind of fun. So I went in 2019. That was four years ago at the time of this recording. Well, another thing too, I mean, because I was looking at the conference this year, which is in, like I mentioned earlier, in St. Louis.

And it's not just for people who are in college as people post, because they have different talks, different speakers, different tracks, so to speak. And there's different tracks, exactly. So it's not just for those who are in college, but those who are in post. And don't, isn't it different every year? Like it alternates, there's a SEEK conference, and then there's, I forget what the other one's called. I'm not sure. I'll have to look it up. Yeah. But, yeah, so. Sorry, everyone who knows.

So it was, be sober and vigilant, your opponent, the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Next line, resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings. I think a lot of the time we don't remember our fellow believers throughout the world undergoing the same sufferings. And that's what I love about conferences like SEEK, because I personally have never been, but it sounds amazing. I know one of our babysitter who watches our kids, she's been to SEEK Conference, she loves it, talks about it frequently.

There's so many great speakers and I mean, I know you're gonna talk about like Jason Evert and Christophonik and things like that. But I mean, besides just the speakers, I mean, just opportunity for mass, confession, adoration, just like you said, having that community of believers surrounding you. Because yeah, it can be isolating, especially on a college campus. Maybe you are going to a very secular university where you feel like you're the only, maybe doesn't have a strong parish in the area. You feel like, oh my gosh, am I alone in this?

But having this opportunity, it can be a breath of fresh air knowing that, hey, I actually am doing something right. And it forms those, especially nowadays with social media and the way we're always connected with one another, you can meet people from all across the country and you can stay connected. Well, and I think that's kind of perfect with the theme for this year. And my understanding is the theme this year is you are the light, right? Be the light. Or be the light. Yes. And to remember, not only are you lifted up by your brothers and sisters in Christ who are there.

James Caldwell (15:54.694)
And when you're not at the conference, who are spread throughout the world doing the same work that you're doing. But you are a light for them. Remember that when you go to those conferences, you are a light to all the other people that are there. They see you and they are encouraged as well. So don't underestimate that, right? Christ lives in your soul as well. Right. Okay, so 2019. Yes.

But pre-COVID, everything was different. Your brother invited you. 15,000 people in the same place. Last minute, was that Indianapolis, I think you said? That's correct, yep, I did end up going. So you did end up going. So tell our listeners what was the feeling like when you got there, were you excited, were you nervous, were you like, what the heck is going on, I don't really wanna be here, but my brother who's a priest invited me, I feel like I kinda had to go. Right, you can't say no.

You can't say no to your brother who's a priest inviting you to a Catholic conference. You can, I guess. But well, my first thing was like money cause I had zero money at the time at school and I was in grad school. But I, I gotta say, man, anytime that I like I really feel the Lord pulling me and I don't want to like guilt anyone into it. And there's like a, there's like a modest financial investment involved. Like, like we gotta be prudent, but honestly, a lot of the time me saying that I'm being prudent is me just being like fearful. And it's so worth it. It's like,

four or five days. It was a, it's a long conference. It's a long commitment of time and it is so good to just leave the world for a minute. If you have the time and there's any way that you're able to make it work financially, it is, and you're just seeking to follow Christ. Like just do it. Just pull the trigger on that because it's powerful. So yeah, especially if your brother tells you the night of still being able to get the cheaper ticket prices, then you save even more money. Right? So just keep that in mind. I don't know if you still can for this year, but.

Probably, because it was like October. Yeah, I mean, we're recording September 27th. Right, right. Get this podcast out there. So I agreed, and I did feel a little weird, because I was, what was I in, 2019? I would have been, how old does that make me? He's bad at math, ladies and gentlemen. 28? 28. Yeah, it would be easier to just do today minus four years. You could have, but that's all right. 28, I was 28, so most people at the seat conference are probably like,

James Caldwell (18:09.742)
and he were from 18 to 25 ish, right? But I did know all the focused missionaries at the school that my brother was essentially the chaplain for, I guess. He was at the student parish. So I was like, okay, well, they're friends of mine and the students are cool and I'll just kind of go with their group. And I didn't have a whole lot of anxiety about it. It was mostly whenever I have to make a big decision like that, like I'm buying a ticket to something, usually after I make the decision, there's...

There's no regret. It's like, all right, here we go. You know? So yeah, I didn't have a lot of anxiety about it and I was very excited. So we, I think drove down separately. It was an Indianapolis, which is like a five or six hour drive, but it's a pretty straight shot from where you're coming from Kalamazoo. And yeah, man, you get there and it's just like electric. Like the city is just alive with Catholic young people. Cool. And it, you feel it. You just see it everywhere. You just, it's weird because I feel like people who are alive,

in Christ, you just know the energy. You, you just, like, there's just like people smiling and laughing all over the place. And you're like, there's joy here. Like something is, the atmosphere is different. Yeah. Right. And it's not even in the convention center. There's like people all over. It's just like, something's different, man. Something's happening here. So that energy, right. When you get there, it's so exciting. Even if you're, you know, not right. If you're not 18 to 25, like for the groups that are going, there's something always electric about it. Always very, that was, I mean, that was honestly,

kind of the conversion or whatever you want to call that continued conversion for me growing up was meeting people who were authentically living out their faith. Uh, it's always been Catholic community for me. It's always, and uh, Curtis Martin was actually giving a talk at this seat conference and one of the things he talked about that was an image that stuck with me since then is this kind of glowing fire in the middle of sort of a snowy night, people sitting around this fire and there's a bunch of glowing coals. And he said the coals continue to glow and burn hot.

as long as they are together. He said, but if you took tongs and grabbed a coal and put it out in the snow, how fast would the light and the warmth go away? And I was like, dang, that is so true. And that's that warmth, that fire is that electricity that you feel there and that you feel in kind of the focus communities on campus and you know, parishes that are alive.

James Caldwell (20:27.998)
Yeah, it was, it was a powerful, yeah. As a like, yeah, I mean, yeah. If you think about it too, that gosh, I love that imagery. Yeah. When the calls are together, cause it's just like, you know, so often we, we isolate ourselves. I mean, COVID, you mentioned COVID hadn't happened yet. We lived in a pre COVID world at that. That is true. But how isolated people were in, yeah. The contrast. I mean, I mean, talk about, you know, spiritual warfare, spiritual combat, you know, who, what is Satan? He's the great divider, right?

And so if he can divide you, it's easier to conquer you. But if you're together, if you have your brothers, if you have your sisters in Christ with you, like you said, it's electric. You can feel it. Like you can't be touched because you have this energy. And like you said, being that, having that love for Christ that's just permeating through the walls of, I'm sure it was like the Convention Center or whatever, it's infectious, it's contagious, but in a good way. Like you wanna catch it and you can't help but, when you have the Holy Spirit, that's just.

clearly in a place like this, people who are ready, who are eager for more Jesus, you're going to, you're gonna be changed, which I'm sure you experienced that too. Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely. All right, so. When you have a convention center where like a large ballroom is converted into an adoration chapel. Oh gosh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so they have adoration, they had speakers, so tell us about some of the speakers that you experience. Which speakers do you want me to talk about?

You know I'm a father Mike fanboy and so is everybody if they're honest with themselves. That is true. But, um, well I can, I have, so I brought my seek booklet with me today and I have it sitting in front of me since we don't have any sort of video. Uh, I mean, let me just kind of think through the speakers that I remember. I remember obviously father Mike was there. Um, I went to Trent Horan's talk. I was love Trent Horn stuff cause he's an apologist and he's very good. And he, he is married to somebody that I met on my first day of freshman year in a theology class.

His wife Laura sat next to me in my intro to theology class. And then I heard her name later on. I was like, what the heck? That is awesome. Such a small world. That's hilarious. But yeah, no, Trent is awesome. Edward Stree was there, Chris DeFonic, Father Mike Schmitz, Jason Everett. Oh, I got to meet, I got to meet some, I get to, you get to meet them. Like, that's the cool part is you get to actually interact with these speakers and you realize, I mean, I think sometimes there's like, the sort of like celebrity.

James Caldwell (22:48.802)
Catholic speakers that maybe aren't super authentic, but that's like so few and far between. I've maybe encountered that once. And I got to meet sister Bethany Madonna. I got to meet sister Miriam James Hyland, Jason Everett, Christophonik, I didn't meet father Mike, cause come on, you know, we're gonna, that line is too long. But just incredible and authentic, just authentic people.

just given really, really beautiful talks. Particularly, the ones that stood out to me the most, honestly, were Sister Miriam James and Sister Bethany Madonna. Those are my two favorites. They're just, they're rock stars. Was there one maybe theme or topic that really sticks out to you? I know you, I mean, the booklet you have, it looks like you have room to take notes and stuff and anything that really stands out. Yeah, Sister Miriam James, Hyland. If you guys have not heard her speak, she was at the...

CAFA Men's Conference this last year in Grand Rapids and she gave a talk which was just phenomenal. Like she is just a powerhouse of a woman. I think the beauty of Sister Maryam James is one, she's authentic and she's humble and that I think speaks to this generation of students. And she comes from a place of pain, she comes from a place of trauma. And a lot of people I feel like come from places of trauma, I feel like they can't talk about it and they hear her speak and she speaks with such authenticity and such gentleness that she's just magnetic.

And if you don't know who this is, look her up right now. You're not going to regret it. Well, she has a podcast with two of her really good friends, the abiding together, the binding together, which is my wife always listens to that. She's even I listen to that too. So great podcast. Yeah. So I mean, I mean, that's, that's one element of the seat conferences is you go to these talks, you can take notes there. I mean, it's intellectually stimulating. They're always very entertaining. The speakers are very entertaining, but just spiritually, I feel like you're just coming into contact with

I mean, and it's not people who are perfect. I think sometimes we can get this saint complex where like, we'd look at a saint and they're like porcelain statue and it's like, I can never relate. Um, that's why I really emphasize like, go meet them, go talk to them. Cause they're so fantastic. Yes. Like one example of that, that I think is really amazing. Um, I, early on, I think one of the first talks I ever listened to my freshman year in high school that got me like on this whole Catholic world, young adult world,

James Caldwell (25:05.222)
was Jason Everett romance without regret video. Gosh, back in like 2005. And so I waited in line to meet Jason and Kristalina because they were there. And why not? I had a little time on my hands. And the funny thing was I was a theology teacher for four years and I had my own students watch the same video. I was curious to see if it kind of held up after 10 or 15 years or whatever.

since I had seen it for the first time, and I wanted them to kind of write on it, and write honestly on it. I didn't want them to be like, why is it good? I wanted them to be like, what are your thoughts? How does this hit you? Just to be honest, because honestly, I feel like they process it better that way. I had one student who wrote a six page paper, I only required two pages, double spaced. I got a six page paper, single spaced, from one student who hated it. Hated it. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least that was kind of.

Did you send them to Jason Everett and say, well, that's yeah, yeah. So here's the thing. So that six page paper was circulated among all the students at the school and they all read it. And it was like this kind of like, Whoa, did you hear what so-and-so wrote as a response to Mr. McNally, the video that they had in Mr. McNally's theology class. So I, when I got to, I mean, I probably could have phrased this better, but I got up to him and I was talking to him. I told him about, you know, how much, you know, his work has really moved me and inspired me. And I was like, by the way, I have one student who,

hated your work, hated romance without regret. When I showed it to them, wrote a six page paper on how much they hated it. Do you want to know what his exact response was without missing a beat? What? He's like, can you give me the student's email address? Yes. Did you? I did. Well, I reached out to the student and I was like, hey, do you remember that guy you hated? He wants to talk. And so the student's like, yeah, absolutely. Why not? So apparently over the course of the weekend,

they exchanged some emails about it. And fast forward, I, so she was a student at university Michigan at the time and he was coming to, I think it was Gabriel Rashard high school over on the East side. Okay. Uh, and I reached out and I was like, Hey, he's coming to this school really close to you. Do you want to go? Yeah. And she was like, well, I can't drive. And I was like, well, I'm coming. Oh, you can, we can go together. And so we literally, it's so funny. It was like it came full circle and uh,

James Caldwell (27:28.018)
And it's not like a situation where it's like, oh yeah, she was totally convinced of everything that he said. But what moved me was he was like, I want to talk. I want to hear, not only not talk to convince, but he was like, I want to talk. I want to hear what she has to say. Yes. I love that. I, cause I interviewed Jason too. And I've heard him speak on podcasts and he has his own podcast too. And he is always, that is always his first.

I guess response or point he always makes is that these people have stories Yeah, and they are resisting what we're telling whatever the church is telling for a reason exactly And so instead of being super defensive about it people or yeah But yeah, a lot of people have wounds, right? You know so that even they could have heard that video that he produced in what 20 2005 and rise a long time ago and whatever it was something probably hit her and there could have been a huge wound or a trauma or

Or just, no, just poor formation or whatever the case may be. And he always responds, like, without missing a beat, he says, what's your email address? I'd love to talk to her. And that's the thing, I think that kind of caricature that I gave of like, oh, well, there's people with the whole celebrity complex of like, well, they're a Catholic speaker, but they're not really accessible. I don't think that's super common. I think it exists, but I don't think it's super common. I think another really good counter example to that.

is my, my guy, father Mike Schmitz. I will tell you that I've emailed him no fewer than four times, maybe five times with sincere questions. I'm not trying to like waste his time. I had very sincere questions every time. And one of the times I emailed him, I sent him like five paragraphs, like some of it was like angry. I was like angry because there were some stuff. I was really struggling with at the time. He emailed me back every time.

And the sign, I mean, somebody who's like, well, Dan, that's his secretary emailing you back. It's like, no, it's not. You can tell from the way he types and his sign off. He has a quote at the bottom. I think it's from CS Lewis. And he's like, you know, if I can give any of my time, like who's to say that my time is more valuable than someone else's. And it's like that kind of servant heart attitude that Jason immediately took without missing a beat father Mike takes and responding to all of my emails. I'm not saying they're perfect again, right? They, I've heard people tell stories where they feel like

James Caldwell (29:48.586)
you know, they've been like maybe not had the, but the point, we're human beings, right? And that's the attitude that they approach things with is I want, I want to serve. I want to seek out this person. Right. And I think that's amazing. That's, so that's one of the things is the people that are at seek that are speaking to you, that are sharing with you are sincere witnesses, I think, for the lion's share of, of them. Yeah. I mean, I know.

the story of John Paul II, one of his best character traits was that if you were speaking with him, you felt like you were the only person in the room. You know, and I think that's a trait that- Especially if you were the only person in the room. He had no other place to go. But no, I mean, yeah, I guess I agree too because reaching out for, I mean, I've had Jason Everett on the podcast and some other guests too, and how willing they are to give their time. Yes. And these true witnesses, I think, you know,

I forgot to look at the speaker lineup this year for Seek, but I mean, so many are, like you said, authentic witnesses and they are truly giving their time back to Christ in the church. And so, you know, going and meeting these people who you may have heard are like, oh, like I'd love to meet them or love to actually speak with them. Like this is your, a lot of times this is your chance because this is when they're most available. And a lot of times too, I know speakers when they, you know, they book this, whether they're there for two days or three days or the whole conference.

They're like, when I'm there, I'm fully there. Right. You know, so I know Chris Stefanik, I heard him talk and he said, look, you guys booked me for the night, I will stay here until three in the morning and speak with you guys. And he's like, I'm not leaving until the last person leaves. And that's how these people are, because they are so willing to give their time. That's why I love, you know, like you said, these conferences here too. And it's refreshing to see, because especially in the secular world, we're like, oh, you know, like, I'll never be able to talk to them. Like Catholic.

the Catholic world is yes, there might be these quote unquote celebrities, but they're also very real and down to earth and willing to get back. For the most part, they're celebrities for a reason. They've, they've risen above because people are like, this is a person who loves the Lord. It's, I would say it's the difference between like watching a YouTube video about how to surf and like getting out there with a surfboard and an instructor and just like diving in. Like you're there, you're immersed. And it's, it really is life-changing. Like I, I feel like I'm trying to sell it. Like like

James Caldwell (32:10.862)
spend the money, go to the, take the days off or whatever. But like it is such a big difference and it is such an experience. I have a Christophonic story, but I can save it for later. No, no, no. You said you had stories. You said you had a few stories. Well, I wanna make sure we touch on everything you wanna touch on with regard to the Z-Con. Let's talk about it. We got 30 more minutes, man. Okay, so I'm in the Adoration Chapel, the giant Adoration Chapel, the banquet hall Adoration Chapel, and I'm walking and there's guy with a plaid shirt in front of me.

I say that only because it's an important detail for later. I don't like seek out people with seeks. See what I did there. I don't seek out people with a plaid shirt to follow. And I wasn't following this person to be fair. I was walking down the back aisle of the adoration chapel because I was going to go pray before dinner. And like the person with the plaid shirt stops dead in his tracks. I don't even know who this person, I mean, this just as a person in a pleasure to me at this point. And I like, I stopped because they stop, right?

he turns around and looks directly at me and it's Chris Stefanik. I'm like, well, that's weird. Um, but he like looks at me like, like I've been following. Oh my gosh. And then he like turns around and keeps going. He didn't say anything to me. He just stopped in his tracks, looked at me and then kept going. He, I'm sure he's prayed for you. I really thank you, Chris. I hope.

He doesn't remember these events, but he does. Well, good comment below. Is that a thing? I don't know. So he, he kept walking and then I veered off up towards Jesus cause that's what I came to do. Went and prayed, went back to the hotel room, uh, grabbed my brother and we went down to no, no on the way back up to the hotel to, to grab my brother from the hotel room to like taking a nap or something. I was like walking back towards the hotel and I was like,

That's super weird. Like, why did, why did that happen? He probably thinks that I'm like fanboying over him, that I'm like a super fan and that he, that I would, I was literally following him. Well, I'm glad that didn't last that long. Right? So I'm walking back towards the hotel. So there's, it's like the convention center is, it's, is attached by like sky bridge to hotel. So walking across the bridge, I'm in the hotel like lobby and there's no one there except

James Caldwell (34:33.47)
There's a person in front of me with a plaid shirt on. I'm not even, I'm not even kidding. So I'm like walking back to the elevator lobby. It occurs to me very quickly. I'm like, that's, I've seen that plaid shirt recently and he is walking in the same direction I am, but also in front of me, just like before. Deja vu. And so I'm like, all right, well, at least we're in a hotel lobby. There's going to be a lot of people. It's not going to be weird for very long. We get to the elevator lobby where there's like six elevator doors.

No one is there. There are 15,000 people at this conference and no one is in the elevator lobby. I don't know how that's even possible. That's a miracle. Probably. And so here's the thing though. I'm like still behind him as we approach the elevators and I want like to have a reason to be there. My reason to be there is to press the button to get on the elevator to show that I came there to go up the elevator. He pressed the button cause he was in front of me.

James Caldwell (35:30.566)
So he pressed the button as I'm like, you know, I need a cause to be here. And then he turns around again and he sees me and he's like, Oh, hey. So he, I think had the flu that night or like was very sick or something. And I was like, Oh, Hey Chris, how's it going? I mean, I figured I could say that cause he's famous. Yeah. It's okay for me to know his name. And I like sorta introduced myself. And I like reached out my hand to shake his hand.

but he was holding his notes in his right hand. So what ended up happening was I like shook his pinky finger. And I got to say something like, I think Christophonic is great, but I already told you I'm a father, Mike fan boy. Like I'm not like a big Christophonic fan boy. I'm like aware of him, but I'm like, why did this have to happen now? Like I'm not even like a big super fan. I like, I'm like, Christophonic is great, but now I'm shaking his pinky, looking like an idiot and the elevator doors open.

It's just the two of us, of course. So we both step into the elevator. We're now in a small enclosed space together and don't know what to say to each other. So the door is shut and I'm trying to think to myself, how can I interact with him in a meaningful man-to-man way that doesn't make me seem like a fanboy? Because I'm not, right? And I'm like, I knew he was giving the keynote that night. So I was like, oh, how's your talk going? Are you like ready to give it? Are you, I mean, I'm sure you're not nervous, you know, cause you do this all the time, whatever.

He's like, yeah, just a little bit sick. So not feeling great, but you know, doing, doing good. I got, I'm just like a very normal response. And I was, I was like, all right, as long as I don't like take a selfie with him, I think we'll be fine. Right. And I didn't. Uh, and then he got off at his exit or whatever his floor. And I was like, all right, man, good luck praying for you. Door shut. I go up, find my brother. We get ready. We go down to dinner. So we're like getting ready to go down to dinner. We get in the elevator. We're heading back down. This is 20, 30 minutes later. Right. We get out of the elevator.

there's like a million people down there now, not zero, like a million. We're walking towards the restaurant. Cause it's one of those restaurants. It's like in the hotel, right by the elevators. There's like the menu outside in a little glass case. Um, and my brother and I are standing outside of the elevator. I don't know how this timing works. I just attract weird things to me, I think. And I'm like standing there in front of the restaurant cause my brother and I are waiting in line to go to the restaurant. But I like somehow my body is like now angled towards the elevator, I guess.

James Caldwell (37:50.974)
And I like my, I just look over at the elevator cause I'm just looking around cause we're waiting and the elevator doors open. And Christophonic is staring me dead in the eyes. Like I've been waiting in the lobby for a half hour just to look at him. And we just share one more glance. And I'm like, I can't, this is not. No, no, I'm not even like, this isn't, I haven't what? So he gave his talk, did a great job.

But as he was leaving, they're like, please, you know, Chris is sick tonight, so he's just gonna head back to his hotel room, it didn't matter. He was like on a golf cart, and they took him on a golf cart, and there were literally girls chasing him trying to take selfies with him. I felt vindicated. I was like, he probably thinks they're worse than I am. But that's my Christopher story. Oh gosh. That is amazing. Only at Seek, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, yes, you too can convince Christopher that you're his fanboy when you're not. I love you, Chris, you're great.

Chris is great. He is great. He's, yeah. I remember when the moral relativism, his relativism book, that little booklet came out and he came to speak at Steubenville and that was awesome. Yeah. He's great. I'm just, I just mean to say like, I'm not like, he wouldn't be the speaker that I like try to like follow and talk to. That's just funny. That three separate encounters. I hope he hears this. I'm sure he will. Christophonic, you're amazing. I need you to know that I.

I wasn't following you. He's not a stalker. We don't bring stalkers on. No, we don't. We don't. So, so, all right. So one more story. One more story. One more story. Which one? You said you had three. I do. I have one more. It's perfect. Um, well I was, I was joking with James beforehand cause it's like, Oh, we're talking to college age guys. And I was like, well, I can talk about how I met my future wife at seek, but I'm single. So that would be a lie.

but I kind of. We're asked to don't invite liars on the podcast. I have neither of those things. Well, I mean, if I lie, I confess it.

James Caldwell (40:00.118)
Um, so I will tell one more funny story. It's about how I met my spiritual director. Yeah. PT school. Yes. So in Grinnell Rapids, there was this young adult community called Queen and EO that was around for like 20 years. And it was really good. It was every Tuesday night. They would do adoration. Well, yeah. Adoration rosary. And then I would have a talk and then like social time afterwards. It was really, really beautiful. Life-giving really filled my cup for several years. And one of the, and they would always have a different speaker every week. And one of the speakers was this guy.

who was a priest, but he was, I don't want to say like a late vocation. He was a little bit later vocation. He ended up going to seminary and I think it is mid to late thirties because he kind of bounced around a lot and I have bounced around a lot. Uh, and I'm just kind of a, that's sort of my just attention span and just my personality is, uh, I've tried a lot of different things, but you know, uh, so I, I don't know, I resonated with his story and I just remember kind of tucking that away. I mean like this guy's cool. And

And I, at the beginning of PT school, I was thinking to myself, man, I really, I would really like to get a spiritual director cause I haven't had one in a while. Um, and let me just tell you, everyone who's listening, if you don't have a spiritual director and you have questions about the faith and you don't know exactly what's coming next or how to kind of discern it, I cannot stress enough. Get yourself a spiritual director. Oh my gosh. Life changing. However, I did not have one at this point in the story. So,

Remember that part of the last story where I went up to get my brother and go to dinner? Well, this is a story from inside that story. It was in the middle of it. Cause I was walking back to elevator and I'm, I kid you not, it's funny. The, the Lord's timing is kind of funny. Sometimes I was thinking to myself, walking down the hallway from the room to the elevator, I was thinking, I really need to get on that spiritual director thing.

And I said to myself, I'm not kidding about this timing either. As I was walking towards the elevators, I was like, I wonder about that priest. I think his name was like father Bill. He came to, to give a talk at coinonia and I think he'd be a really great guy to talk to about spiritual direction, just cause I feel like his story really aligns with, you know, my personality and my story as well. And I was like, maybe when we get back, I should like reach out to him. I'm not kidding you. The elevator doors opened after I had that thought.

James Caldwell (42:20.746)
And he was standing there alone in the elevator. And I looked at him and I was like, uh, father Bill? And he's like, oh, hey, hi. And he obviously didn't know who I was, which is totally okay. And I was like, can we talk? And I'm not saying that's how it's gonna happen for you. You go to seek, you get a spiritual doctor. You go to seek, you meet your wife. You go to seek, you get to be friends with Chris Stefanic. Or Stockham. What'd you say?

Oh, stocking. I thought you said Dawkins. It's like, he's not invited to speak at seek. Um, but yeah, I, I just think it's kind of a, it was such a crazy, like the timing, it's just funny when like you have a plan and the Lord just like laughs at you. And he's like, how about this? He just has good timing. So those are my stories. When I accidentally stalked Christophonic, when I told Jason Everett that my student hated his work. And when I accidentally found my spiritual director immediately after creating about him, go to seek.

Seek it out. All right. So, okay. So what, what would you say is your biggest, your biggest takeaway from seek community? Okay. Seek out community, create community if it's not there. If you're on a college campus that doesn't have focus or like St Paul's outreach or like, you know, other Catholic organizations that intentionally create that community, that discipleship find it. I mean, it's cheesy, but like, seek it out, like make it if it's not there, find a way to

make it there. It's that Curtis Martin example I think was the one thing, the most vivid thing that I took away from that conference was that image of the coals. I love that, I'm still thinking about that. I have been in the fire and I have been in the snow. Yeah, 100%. And it's a very different life. Yes, well yeah, I mean, because the theme this year coming up is be the light. Yeah. And you know, echoes what Jesus said, you're the salt of the earth and the light of the world. And

You know, it's, I think you mentioned this before we even started recording was, even in the darkest room, just a little flicker of light and how much that actually permeates throughout the whole room. Yeah. And I think too, what we neglect is that, it's so easy, and we talk about isolation, we've talked about it a few times, when maybe you're surrounded by people who don't believe.

James Caldwell (44:47.722)
the same things that you do who aren't Catholic, maybe they're persecuting you because you are Catholic. And- Or maybe they are waiting to hear what you have to share. Yeah. And I think we, it's so easy to conform to the world, the worldly standards. It's very easy. And you know, people, if you know scripture, you know what Jesus talks about is, fear.

Don't I always butcher But fear God rather than man the one who can Do not do not do not fear the one who can destroy your body before the one who can destroy you yeah, thank you Dan McNally and You know, especially young men out there in a culture where you know toxic masculinity and Men are kind of cast aside so to speak. It's hard to be the light

because you are constantly maybe shouted down upon or said you're too aggressive or whatever the case might be for those of the young men listening out there. And especially like I was telling you too, I had when I went to high school, my freshman year I was out of public school. And I know. How did you do that? I don't know. But for those of you who play sports, locker room talk.

You know, we've all heard about like locker room talk and everything and being in public school, they often talk about having sex with girls and things like that and I was a virgin at the time. It's very hard to admit that you were a virgin and amidst of a bunch of football players. I'm a virgin. Yeah, see? There it is. Bunch of football players. I mean, there might be football players. That is true, there's probably some. But no. How embarrassing. Because you don't know too.

By admitting that. No, it's true. I mean, there's a huge pressure with all those people. And it's not even necessarily any individual that's like putting that on you, but having all of them there, there's just this collective. Yeah, for sure. Right, exactly. And so you don't know if you say that, you don't know who hears that and who's inspired by that. And who totally changed the trajectory. Oh, that's a really good, I'm glad you said that. It's kinda like when it's like election season and you see people putting out signs for their candidate. Yeah. Like, I used to think that was stupid, and I was like, wow, like.

James Caldwell (47:08.11)
you're going to convince me to vote for your guy because you're the sign with their name on it is in your yard. But I realized, Oh, it's not for that. Like it's, and maybe this is me just looking at it with my own sort of spin, but like it's to encourage the people of like mind that they're not alone. Yeah. And it's the same. It's the same thing. Yeah. Is when you stand up, it's not just actively fighting the enemy. It's, it's, it's stirring a fire in the hearts of those people that are too scared to do it themselves. Right. Yeah.

And again you thank you sir You you don't know who is listening like when we put on this podcast, too We don't know who's gonna listen this we don't know who By your witness in your testimony that might inspire somebody to go to the seat conference and ends up changing the course Trajectory of the life like you just don't know, you know, and I interviewed someone yesterday too for the podcast and they talked about you know how his biggest parable that he talks about not parable, but

witness from Jesus that he gives to talks to men is when Jesus fed the 5,000. And he said, okay, so what did he ask his disciples? Okay, so he said, okay, they said, okay, we don't have any food. We need to send them away, go get the food. And he said, well, you feed them. And they kind of, I mean, you can imagine, like they probably laughed at Jesus, like, okay, Jesus, and they're like, oh, you're serious, okay? He's like.

Okay, so what do you have? And they're like, okay, we have like two loaves, three fish, you know, whatever their amount was. Like this, basically this would not make a dent in anyone's bellies, right? And Jesus basically will give it to me. And the little you have to give, the little that you think you have to give, Jesus will take that and he will expand that infinitely. Did you interview Dallas Jenkins? I did not.

Your Dallas Jenkins he loves the five loves and two fish though does he bring your bring your five loves into fish? And let the Lord multiply it Dallas you got to come on the podcast Dallas, but There I'm want to encourage you men especially is because I know in the culture And I know you know wherever you're at you might You might be discouraged But you again you don't know by you flashing that flicker of light who's gonna see that and who's gonna rally behind you

James Caldwell (49:31.702)
So you come to a conference like this and you create this brotherhood and also with your sisters in Christ as well, but then the point is that you go back to where you were and that you bloom where you were planted, right? Because sometimes all you need is that little bit of encouragement because this is all temporary. We have to remember that too. Where you are at individually in your place of life right now, it's temporary. Whether it's the most difficult time in your life, that might be hard to hear, but it's temporary.

And this is your chance to build relationships with people who are seeking the same things that you are and going out into the world and evangelizing. And I think the use of the word temporary is perfect because your life on earth is temporary. The perspective that gives anything that we do purpose and meaning is the eternal perspective of the kingdom of heaven.

Right? I mean, if, if heaven Disney didn't, doesn't exist and hell doesn't exist and God doesn't exist and none of this matters, then what's the point? But like going to a conference and reinvigorating the part of our soul that finds purpose, the part of our, the part of our soul that like gives us a reason for even existing, why would you not go? You know, it makes me think of the Han Solo line from when they redid the star Wars movie. They did the episode seven and I think it's episode seven. It might be, I don't know which one it is. I only watched them all once.

No offense. You liked those. Um, where he, oh yeah. Cause he does. Oh, sorry. I'm not going to spoil that, but he, uh, he can only give lines in the first of the three. Um, but anyway, just to edit that part out, I don't know. But the line is the one, the part where he's like, they're asking him about the force and he's like, it's, it's real. All of it. Yeah. It's like live as if that's the case. Right. See what happens.

I mean, truly and honestly, what do you have to lose? Honestly. And again, I know as a young man, you're thinking probably if you're, say you're college age, you're like, okay, I'm gonna graduate, gonna try to find my wife, I'm gonna try and get married, maybe I'm gonna go into the priesthood. There's always gonna be that next thing, right? There's always gonna be, okay, if I, when I get the job, when I get a career, when I'm making a million dollars a year,

James Caldwell (51:51.658)
when I'm doing this, that, yeah, that'd be nice too, right? But there's always gonna be that next thing that you are constantly searching for. And until you can accept who you are, where you are currently, you're always gonna be searching for something else. And again, I can't emphasize enough the importance of having that community like you mentioned, Dan, is so important, and especially having community of individuals who are...

are like-minded like you who are constantly looking to heaven or constantly looking to become a saint. Because without that, you're just gonna be, it's so easy to get devoured by the world, devoured by the devil who's constantly prying about the world seeking the ruin of souls. I finally quoted it correctly. Yes, I did it. So finding that community is what this, I think this conference is all about. And I think going to the conference is letting yourself realize that it is.

It does exist. It is possible. Go and encounter it. Right. There's this line about mountain climbing that I was trying to pull up on my phone, but I can't find it. Um, that's basically like the whole point of climbing the mountain is like you go to the top and you can see the incredible view. The point is not to stay on top of the mountain. Like you're going to be going through some valleys, but the idea is you've been on the top of the mountain and you've seen everything from the top of the mountain so that when you go through the valleys, you won't see it, but you will have seen it.

and you can carry with you the memory of having seen it and know that it is in fact real, even when it's dark and low and raining or whatever. But like, I think the idea of going is go to just essentially be supercharged. Go and rediscover and be like, oh my gosh, this is real. And I can make this happen, because I think the weight of the world can really drag you down. I experienced, I mean, even just recently, like I experienced that a lot. And.

Go and rediscover.

James Caldwell (53:53.642)
what it is that is driving any of this in the first place. Go and rediscover what the point of your whole life is. Not to put too dramatic of a spin on it, but I mean, you really can't. Well, go and encounter Jesus. Yeah. And I think a conference like this, you can't help but be affected in one way or another. I'm not saying you're gonna go there and you're gonna have this profoundly spiritual experience. For some of you, probably will, but.

For those of you who don't, that doesn't mean you did it wrong or whatever the case might be, but just go and truly give what little you have to Jesus. Your loaves and fishes, yeah. And see what happens. Again, like we said earlier, what do you have to lose?

Be the light. So again, ladies and gentlemen listening, Seek24 is from January 1st through the 5th, St. Louis, Missouri. That's close to everybody. That is pretty close to everybody. It's like the middle of the country. People are listening from Alaska. That's not close to me, James. Probably not, or Hawaii. Sorry. Which one is it closer to? Think on your feet. Alaska. I don't know.

Okay. It depends on the part.

Okay, well now we're getting geographical here. Sorry guys. I'm so sorry. We were on such a roll. Oh my closing it out. I, I own it all. He's fired. I take over complete ownership. Don't more work on me. Let people know that we're humans. You know, no, we're perfect. This is what was I saying? Seek 24, 24 January 1st through the 5th. I'll leave links in the show notes for you guys. Purchase tickets.

James Caldwell (55:35.51)
make sure you get ahead of that price change. Yes, exactly. Just like I did. I don't know what it is. I'll figure it out. We'll put it in the show notes. Go ahead and seek it out. Oh. Put a little, is that your challenge to them this week? Yes, seek out the Seek Conference and see if it is prudent and practical for you to do so. Because obviously we understand financial, especially if you're in college, finances might be a little tough.

But if you're able to discern that, see if it is. Bring that to the Lord. Bring it to the Lord. He does crazy things sometimes. He really does. If you're truly discerning it, and you're like, Lord, I wanna go, I'm really feeling called, but I don't know how to afford this. Just give to God. He will, trust me, He will take care of it. It's amazing how God works. So, thank you all for listening. Dan, thank you for sharing your experience.

My seek 2019 my pleasure until next time ladies and gentlemen go out there and be a saint

Thank you all so much for tuning in to another episode of The Manly Catholic. If you have not already done so, please hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you don't miss a single episode. It will also help grow the show and reach as many men as possible. We truly think this podcast can change families and help men to change the world. Thank you again so much for tuning in and God bless you.