Ep 118 - From A to Z and All Things In Between, A Catholic Compendium of All You Need to Know with Shaun McAfee

The Manly Catholic (00:00.142)
This is, you've gotten some high praise. I was reading the, let's see, Archbishop, Gregory, Amon, Devin Rose, all that stuff along that line. Where? thanks, Devin. no.

Shaun McAfee (00:07.053)
Did you catch the typo?

Shaun McAfee (00:13.229)
I can't tell you $5 for when you catch it. It's okay. They're going to correct it. I don't know how that passed it. That wasn't even me. You'll see it. Don't worry.

The Manly Catholic (00:22.766)
well now, now you're saying this so people get the book and then they have to...

Shaun McAfee (00:28.845)
I mean, so I read Dune. I read Dune just recently because I liked the movie and I was like, got to watch the book. And so I read the book and I found three very distinct typos. And that's a book that has been reprinted like millions of times. And I found three very clear typos. And so I always point out to people because my friends love to jab me online.

The Manly Catholic (00:32.782)
Dune, yes. Yes.

The Manly Catholic (00:48.782)
Yes, and no one caught it.

Shaun McAfee (00:57.069)
you know, either in like a Discord group or a Facebook group or in a message. And they'll be like, Hey, did you mean to do this? I'll be like, of course I didn't, you know, thanks. I didn't catch that after, you know, at least 10 times reading it and the editor reading it 10 times and a team. So yeah, typos happen, but this one's egregious.

The Manly Catholic (01:17.486)
man, well, now I have to, well, so when you're, so I'm, I'm just gonna let you talk and I'm just gonna search through the book and I'll try to find the air for you.

Shaun McAfee (01:21.1)
It's all good. Human error.

Shaun McAfee (01:29.773)
Dude, if you don't find it in the first 50 words.

The Manly Catholic (01:34.478)
then I have a reading problem.

Shaun McAfee (01:36.397)
It's not even on page one. It's...

The Manly Catholic (01:38.734)
my gosh. Okay, well I'm going to. Well, let's talk about it because it is a great book, by the way. And it's because it's not like your usual, you know, like when people say, okay, I'll think Catholic, I have to make a Z. All right, blah, blah, blah. But no, this is actually fun and entertaining. And, you know, it gets down to the nitty gritty details, too. So you do a good job of combining the both and the Catholic tips and all that. But well done. Well done, sir.

Shaun McAfee (01:47.053)
Thank you, man. I worked really hard on this one.

Shaun McAfee (01:57.933)
Thank you.

Shaun McAfee (02:07.501)
Yeah, yeah. This book was a long journey, man. I started this when I lived in Italy and I wanted to create a kind of a dictionary for apologists. But the editor was like, hey, let's take this beyond apologics because all apologetics is based on evangelization. So let's open this up to all kinds of readers, not just people who want to defend the faith. Of course we have to do that, but we have to do that within a certain paradigm of bringing the world to Christ. So.

The Manly Catholic (02:11.375)
Okay.

Shaun McAfee (02:37.325)
That's where we took this book and boy boy was it, it was like a three year journey. I started this one back in 2020, 2021, 2020, 2021 and right in the midst of COVID and kind of writing it while I was on vacation, staycations and this book, there are so many ups and downs with the way that this book came to be that.

boy was it just a struggle, but this is definitely one that I am proud to put a nail in the coffin and say, wow, we did a really magnificent job minus the typo in the first 50 words.

The Manly Catholic (03:19.054)
Well, let's let's dive in, Shaun, shall we? Do you have any questions for me?

Shaun McAfee (03:20.941)
Okay, yeah. No, man, I want to know why you think it's entertaining.

The Manly Catholic (03:27.662)
What I mean though is because, okay, so again, like, no, I know, I just, what I meant was, you know, when someone sees something, it's like Catholic A to Z, like, okay, this is probably gonna be a boring book where it's just like you're reading a dictionary. It's like watching wet paint dry. Like it's not, like, all right, here's the first word. Right, and I think you do a good job too of.

Shaun McAfee (03:29.838)
And I don't take that offensively, I just, it's good feedback.

Shaun McAfee (03:42.541)
Right.

Yeah.

Shaun McAfee (03:50.253)
Right, here's a definition, move on. Here's a definition, move on. Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (03:55.95)
of you're concise with it, but you get the point of cross as well. You kind of get to the meat of it. And I think a lot of times it's it's there's a lot of a extra fluff around it. So yeah, yeah, it's it's not a criticism, I promise. Yeah, yeah.

Shaun McAfee (04:07.789)
Yeah, yeah, this was a really tough book to write. No, no, I didn't take it that way. I was like, man, he enjoyed it. I just want to know what. So maybe I could do a do a second edition one day.

The Manly Catholic (04:19.022)
There you go. I like it. All right. Should we get started? Do you have any time constraints? I do have another interview at 9 p Eastern time. I know. I know. I don't know why I agreed to that. I don't know why I agreed to that. I was supposed to interview him last week in my defense and then then his like his mom went to the ER.

Shaun McAfee (04:22.413)
Yes.

Shaun McAfee (04:29.269)
Wow! Dude, you're pulling an all -nighter. No, I got no time constraints. Just do what you want with me, man.

Shaun McAfee (04:45.453)
gosh.

The Manly Catholic (04:45.71)
And then, yeah, so she's fine now though, thank God. But then he said, yeah, can you do like 9 p Because I usually do Tuesdays like my interview night and I try to make it that night only. So I'm like, well, I could squeeze in too. And it's Shaun, so yeah. It just gets overwhelming, as I'm sure you know. Yes, absolutely. All right.

Shaun McAfee (04:58.093)
That's great. I'm glad you do that for your family, you know.

Shaun McAfee (05:08.109)
Being predictable is very important. I know what that is like. Go for it, man.

The Manly Catholic (05:15.31)
Let's do it. Hello all. Welcome to another episode of the Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and we brought him back. Mr. Shaun McAfee. Shaun, welcome back to the Manly Catholic. How are you, sir?

Shaun McAfee (05:28.621)
I'm good, you brought me back reluctantly, I know.

The Manly Catholic (05:31.31)
It was not reluctantly, Shaun, because you have a wonderful shirt on. You wrote an amazing book. And Shaun, why don't you tell for those of us on YouTube who are watching, tell tell the good people about your shirt.

Shaun McAfee (05:47.789)
You're mean. Okay. I told him before the show that this is my golf shirt. Cause he said, that's a nice shirt. I said, it's my golf shirt. And he said, you went golfing today. I said, no, I haven't been golfing in like a year and a half. And he's like, then it's not a golf shirt, is it? So yeah, you killed all the mojo.

The Manly Catholic (06:04.142)
I mean, I told Shaun to when when when I already have somebody on, I feel like after that I can just gloves are off. We can kind of jab each other and things like that. It's all all all in good love, Shaun. Well, for those of you who do not know, Shaun, he we I interviewed him in episode 99, which he wrote another amazing book on the it was a compendium of sacramentals. Did I say that correctly? Yes.

Shaun McAfee (06:14.125)
Well, the jabs are going one way right now. Tears.

Shaun McAfee (06:31.917)
That's right.

The Manly Catholic (06:33.806)
Compendium of Sacraments, which is another fantastic book, but we are going to talk about it's called All Things Catholic, a Guide from A to Z. Now it is not your typical what you might think of like, this is just going to be a dictionary. I don't need to get this book. I'm really excited for Shaun to tell you about it, too. But I thoroughly enjoyed it because I was telling him before the show, too, it's it was entertaining in a surprising way, because again, you think of.

A guide from A to Z. Most people see that. I was like, okay, this is gonna be a boring book. It's just kind of like, let's go through the basics, things like that, which you do, but you do in a concise way, a fun way, entertaining way you give. I like the little sections you call a Catholic tip and throughout, which is a good little tidbits and food for thoughts for people as well, which I enjoy. But before we get into it, in the background of it, let us ask our blessed mother to pray for us. So we'll start in the name of the Father and the Son, Holy Spirit, amen.

Shaun McAfee (07:13.453)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (07:29.198)
Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee blessed art thou among women and blesses the fruit of thy womb Jesus Mother of God pray for us sinners and now one at the hour of our death. Amen Father Son Holy Spirit a man Shaun tell us first of all tell us what has been going on with you besides obviously releasing this book What's what's been happening in your life?

Shaun McAfee (07:36.205)
of God. Pray for us sinners now and at the hours of our death. Amen.

Shaun McAfee (07:52.141)
I think, you know, this is the reason I haven't been golfing in so long, is I had two surgeries since we last talked. That's like so major, isn't it? Yeah, I had a...

The Manly Catholic (07:59.598)
What?

Well now I feel bad about saying that. man.

Shaun McAfee (08:06.317)
Yeah, in December, I think we talked before December. So I had a surgery on my shoulder as an old Air Force injury that I just waited a million years to fix. It's called a tenodesis and they cut the ligament of your bicep from your shoulder and they actually drill a hole in your arm and they plug it into there. And they did it. It was successful, quote unquote, I don't know. And then I ripped it like two weeks later.

right when I first started physical therapy, like a month in. And then they got an ultrasound. I thought that was only for babies, but it's actually to check out muscle tissue. And they found that it was like severely torn and they were like, how are you not in more pain? And I was like, I am, I'm just trying not to be a wimp and a manly Catholic and this and that. And so I had to do it again in January or February and...

Dude, it's been a struggle, but I've been doing really good. What is it? The end of May? And I'm doing excellent. I was doing some yard work this week and I'm feeling strong, but I've still got a long way to go to fully heal my arm. So, man, I'm sorry to be all a downer, but that's what's been going on with me is a lot of recovery and a lot of just self analysis. Cause I'm going to tell you something, I'm going to be a little vulnerable here for your listeners, but.

The Manly Catholic (09:20.494)
No! Man.

Shaun McAfee (09:29.901)
When you go through that many surgeries and have that much downtime, you can't do anything. And you're all of a sudden not like the family man of the house taking care of the hard work. Like it was depressing. It was so unpredictably difficult to my conscience that it blew me away. So I am so grateful that I am finally kind of like feeling my feet on wet grass in the morning, you know.

psychologically and just like in the sunshine. And I'm glad I am I'm on cloud nine right now. I'm so happy and I'm so glad that this book is out. This book was a struggle. So yeah, let's continue the conversation. I'm good.

The Manly Catholic (10:14.926)
well, thank you for your vulnerability with that because I went through something similar after I got fired for my first job after I was married. And same thing, huge depression because you feel like almost like you're disappointing people, especially the ones closest to you. I mean, we didn't have children at the time. But yeah, I went through a bout of depression as well because then you realize, too.

Shaun McAfee (10:42.157)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (10:44.494)
I'm sure you kind of had the self you said you had a lot of kind of self reflection too, but you realize when you lose something that you don't realize you've kind of defined yourself as and then you lose that part and like, like that I that I took a huge stock in, you know, being that provider and being that physical therapist or, you know, whatever the case might be, you know, and then you realize, okay, my focus was in the wrong place, which it's I mean, it sucks in the moment, obviously, but I'm sure like you said, you've come out of it and you've probably had a whole new lens to look through life and.

family and priorities and things like that. So yeah, did you have a Saint Ignatius moment where you know you came out of it and I know I know it wasn't a war cut. You said it's from the Air Force. So it wasn't a cannon. Was it a cannonball for Saint Ignatius? I forget I forget that. Okay, we won't go into that. Let's talk about this book. All right, let's talk about this book. So all things Catholic, a guy from A to Z. You said it was a struggle.

Shaun McAfee (11:16.397)
Totally, totally, man.

Shaun McAfee (11:31.917)
No man, it's more embarrassing than that.

The Manly Catholic (11:41.934)
for you, why do you say that?

Shaun McAfee (11:45.069)
Okay, so I'm going to tell you the complete story because it doesn't matter. So I started this book right in the middle of COVID. I was living in Italy. I got the impetus because I've been online helping people understand the Catholic faith for years. And I've answered the same question so many times that I'm like, wouldn't it be cool if somebody kind of made a dictionary for apologetics or a dictionary for evangelization, kind of an...

The Manly Catholic (11:48.046)
Let's do it. Yes.

Shaun McAfee (12:11.661)
encyclopedic that could be a little bit practical as well. And I hadn't really seen that in the market. And I always try to, I do this one thing. I try to write books that I'd like to also have because I'm always thinking like I've got a massive library. That's one bookshelf. Okay. That's one bookshelf of three or four around the house with pretty thick volumes of theology and this and that, you know, and.

The Manly Catholic (12:29.87)
yes. Yes.

Shaun McAfee (12:39.981)
you're sifting through them, trying to find the right stuff all the time. And I find that most people really just want one resource for everything. And I said, well, I want to see if I can do that. And this is really ambitious because this required a new type style of writing for me. It wasn't just like practical help. That's also in the book and explaining that's in the book, but it required really concise and tight defining and consolidation of the magisterium's teaching on

close to 300 subjects, about 270 -something subjects. And to get through all of that and get it published was a lot of work. It required a lot of, yeah, a lot of, I mean, every book requires a lot of humility. It requires a lot of rewriting with the editor and rethinking things, and they call it axing your beauties. But this one actually traded publishers. I won't say who it was with the first time, but it got to such a long duration of the editing process. They were like, this no longer matches my schedule.

And I was like, my gosh, what a hurdle after all of this. We get to the very end. I've got endorsements from an archbishop, you know, and we're at the end. And how bad of a decision is this? But Sophia took it like within a couple of weeks. And that was, I don't know, so many months ago. And we fixed it up to how they like it. And it's way better than I expected it to be.

The Manly Catholic (14:04.398)
Thanks.

Shaun McAfee (14:05.965)
It's way better. I mean, I'm going to hold it up. I'm sorry. I'm a shameless plug, right? I mean, this book's the interviews about the book. First of all, I didn't think that it would be hardcover. You know, they made it hardcover because it's got just so much reusability in it. And then they got full matte pages and color, you know, color, color, sacred images on every page. And man, they just did it so well. And then like three weeks ago, four weeks ago.

The Manly Catholic (14:10.286)
Do it.

Shaun McAfee (14:31.853)
This isn't a bad part of the story. I've passed all the bad stars. We're in the hallelujah days right now. So somewhere a little after Easter, they're like, hey, here's the marketing program for it. Here's what we're going to do. You're going to go on the mainly Catholic and that's pretty much the only thing that we're going to do. And they told me that the price of the book was going to be about 20 bucks. And I'm like, holy smokes. Like you guys are saving people a lot of money. Like this is definitely, I want a million books.

And I know what's out there. This is at least like a 40, $50 book. I mean, you saw Compendium. That was, this is just on the same level. I mean, it's got this hard cover, it's full map pages, excellent binding and then color. and the organization is just exquisite. So holy cow. I'm sorry for the mouthful, but that, the entire process has been so, it's been tough, but I mean, all the things that were worth doing in life are hard. So.

The Manly Catholic (15:07.47)
yeah.

Shaun McAfee (15:29.549)
This one is no exception. I'm really proud of it. I'm gonna be using it myself like I said Because everybody needs that we can talk about the book Everybody needs that one resource that they can continue to go back to for those sanity checks

The Manly Catholic (15:42.382)
100%. Yeah. Hey, Shaun, my wife needs help with our babies who are crying. Do you mind if we pause very quickly? Okay. Time out. Time out. I'll be back. Sorry about that.

Shaun McAfee (15:48.621)
Pause. Pause.

Shaun McAfee (15:53.869)
Go get it, Jim.

Shaun McAfee (16:58.953)
What a good.

Shaun McAfee (17:17.677)
Jim, you're gonna rewatch this, man. I'm really proud of you. Thanks for going and taking care of your family. All this stuff can wait. Like you said, no time constraints. Proud of you, buddy. Thanks for doing the right thing. Good example, put this on your Patreon or whatever you got.

Shaun McAfee (17:50.381)
Should I sing a song?

Shaun McAfee (18:16.973)
I like this shirt.

Jim's right. no, I don't even know if he goes by Jim. James? Mr. Caldwell's right.

Shaun McAfee (21:54.573)
I think everybody's pretty happy about these Pope Francis interviews recently. I mean, could he not have scored this many excellent interviews in such a short amount of time?

I mean, after years of criticism, harsh, harsh judgment and criticism, this like isn't making headlines. I mean, some, but not as much as the, you know, the NFL punter. You know, I don't know. I find that bizarre. I'd much rather hear from our Pontiff than a NFL punter kicker.

Shaun McAfee (22:34.797)
Not to devalue his commencement speech, I think it was fine.

There's a headline here on on YouTube Pope Francis obliterates female deacons.

Shaun McAfee (22:58.189)
People are so...

Shaun McAfee (23:10.349)
I'm just in too good of a mood. This guy posted a screenshot of a National Wildlife Federation's blog. It says a spider sense.

Shaun McAfee (23:24.141)
Spiders can detect danger coming their way with an early warning system called eyes.

Alright, alright, me reading it isn't as funny.

Shaun McAfee (24:36.525)
my dinosaur fell from my webcam. I always keep a dinosaur up here on my webcam. I haven't named him yet. I don't know. I don't know what his name is.

Shaun McAfee (24:49.869)
He's the friendly Stegosaurus. Stegosaurus Rex. Why couldn't anybody else be Rex? That's what kind of makes me mad is like the only, the only dinosaur they made a king, a Rex, was Tyrannosaurus, which is already means tylen. So he's the tyrant king. Why is there no other king dinosaur? There's only a tyrant?

I mean, is anybody else upset about this or is it just me?

He's still recording.

Shaun McAfee (25:34.381)
I'm gonna I'm gonna have a couple more of these moments before he gets back. I bet he's just behind the camera on his monitor just watching, knowing that this is going to be a good show. Now we got extra content for listeners .com.

Shaun McAfee (25:55.725)
man.

Shaun McAfee (26:03.181)
Jim when you getting back he's never coming back

Shaun McAfee (28:00.045)
Hey man, hey. Dude, you got a lot of extra content while you were gone.

The Manly Catholic (28:02.158)
I did it. I'm back. Yes, were you just going on?

Shaun McAfee (28:09.901)
I just went on. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad.

The Manly Catholic (28:11.662)
Yes, perfect. I can't wait to listen to it.

Shaun McAfee (28:18.893)
Is everything okay?

The Manly Catholic (28:19.149)
I didn't I didn't say yeah, everything's fine. Yeah, we have a I Think I told you we have twins, right? So Yeah, we have twins and they're doing this thing which they think is funny where they take forever to go to fall asleep They just started doing this like a week ago week and a half ago. So it takes 16 months and five days. So

Shaun McAfee (28:43.789)
Yep. You'll get through it.

The Manly Catholic (28:44.846)
Good stuff. Got it. One step at a time. All right. So, okay. So we're talking about your book. yes. Okay. So.

What was I gonna ask you? I was thinking about this as I was putting one of my daughters down. yes, okay, so you designed this specifically, your intent was for apologetics. So clearly there's thousands of topics on apologetics and the church teaching as well. I mean, could you go from like abortion to the church teaching on private property to...

Shaun McAfee (29:25.709)
Yeah, yeah.

The Manly Catholic (29:27.278)
I mean social teaching. I mean it's so many topics. So how in your mind I guess what was like yeah I'm gonna put this in now I'm gonna leave that one out. I mean because that's hard to do. I mean especially something like this where you want to have like one stop shop type of thing. I mean that's you can easily see how this is a multi -year project that you underwent.

Shaun McAfee (29:46.541)
Yeah, so at the initial outset, I saw the apologetic side as, I'm going to cover the heresies and I'm going to cover the theological concepts. I'm going to cover kind of problems. And that was enough, I suppose, to kind of get started. But I cannot say enough about opening the doors to the evangelization content. So.

The development of the topics was really aided by the input of other readers, editors of course, people that I ran the content and the ideas by. I would even post stuff on Reddit, secretly trying to gather some people's opinions on these topics. Hey, if you set a problem with marriage, what would be the topics that you would talk to somebody about or things like that.

So from there, it wouldn't just be the sacrament of marriage that had to be in here matrimony, but we would be talking about convalidation of marriage or receiving a annulment or divorce and things like that. So from there, they might seem like obvious things to include in the book, but it really required some analysis and some process of elimination and just consensus gathering, some group think to put them all together.

The Manly Catholic (31:14.286)
Yeah, that's quite the project that you under did. And I did want to ask you.

Because I have never heard this term, so I'm quizzing you on your book.

Shaun McAfee (31:26.221)
The Manly Catholic (31:29.774)
And I'm gonna butcher this word. It must, it starts with a, no, I'll have to look in the P's. It starts with a K, starts with a K. Yeah, Kerygma, the proclamation of the, I'm telling you the definition, I asked you. What's Kerygma?

Shaun McAfee (31:30.733)
Does it start with a P?

Okay, okay. Charigma.

Shaun McAfee (31:45.261)
The kerygma is the good news. This is literally the proclaiming of the good news. You can actually find this word in Greek, I believe, in the New Testament, but this is the early church. I mean, it's still a concept today, but this is definitely the early church's mission, you know, the final commandment from Christ, the great commission of going and preaching the gospel to all nations. So announcing Jesus Christ's redemptive work on the cross.

and that all men are sinful and have a way to be redeemed of that sin is really the essence of the kerygma. And we don't just find it in the early church. We find this as recent. I mean, honestly, an enormous volume from Pope Paul VI called The Mission of the Redeemer, Evangelii Nuntiandi, I believe it's called. And it is just an excellent encyclical that he wrote. He only wrote 11.

And this is one of those big momentous encyclicals that he had on any covers, mostly the Kerygna. Also, Pope Benedict XVI wrote on the mission of the Redeemer as well. And he talks about the Kerygna. So it's not a concept that's lost on deaf ears. It's definitely what we're all called to do is to proclaim the word of Christ by the way we live our life and by the words that we speak to other people.

The Manly Catholic (33:09.55)
What was the first pope that you said, Shaun?

Shaun McAfee (33:12.461)
The first pope ever? No, that was Pope Paul VI.

The Manly Catholic (33:21.23)
son. Okay, so the P word, I think I found it. And I'm also going to butcher this. Perusia? Perusia? What is that?

Shaun McAfee (33:31.085)
Perusia. Yeah, yeah, so this is the second coming of Christ. And people kind of think of this as an eschatological, it's way in the future, but the church actually recognizes the Perusia at Christmas because it's the first coming of Christ. And really, whenever we're thinking about the first coming of Christ, you'll hear some priests and deacons right around Christmas.

talk about the Perusias saying, you know, whenever we think of Christmas, we're not just thinking of Jesus, you know, coming once, we're really thinking of him coming for good, to establish his kingdom, to change the literally the face of the earth and to bring all of mankind into final redemption through the wealth. There's a lot that has to happen. The four last things, the last judgment and this and that. But that's the Perusias, the second coming.

The Manly Catholic (34:28.974)
Excellent. Okay, I'll stop quizzing you on your book. But for you, yeah, now it keeps it fresh, right? Maybe I'll find some other words. But I do want to ask you what for you, again, long project, a lot of research, what was the most surprising thing maybe you found or the most interesting thing that you're like, wow, even I didn't know that type of moment if you had one.

Shaun McAfee (34:31.021)
it's good, it's good!

Shaun McAfee (34:48.653)
gosh, you know, I might have to go through the table of contents to give you like the very best answer on that. But, the easiest one to say that I had to learn the most on was annulments. And that's just like, I can't even really articulate it right now. That one's so complex because it's, it's a lot of canon law. I'm not a canon lawyer. It's a lot of tribunal, processing. It's a lot of circumstantial evidence gathering and.

The Manly Catholic (35:02.414)
Okay.

Shaun McAfee (35:18.349)
that one is a really complex problem and process to divide that, you know, talk about marriage, talk about divorce, talk about how to recognize how the church chooses to articulate that a marriage never happened is not an easy task. And that's what an enrollment is. so that was, that was just really tough. I required a lot of help from some experts and, and then of course my editors as well. So yeah, that's the one that was like the mind blowing.

moment I'd say.

The Manly Catholic (35:49.998)
Yeah, because I think annulments, there tends to be like one or two camps, you know, either it's the church just gives them out like willy -nilly, like it's not, it doesn't really mean anything anymore. And then another camp is like, well, even though I'm Catholic, I can just get an annulment. So it's like, it's easy to get type of thing. Or that goes through the people's minds. But yeah, like you said, there's a lot of nuances because, you know, establishing, was there actually a valid marriage? Was it consummated properly? You know, things like that. I mean, there's just so many.

Shaun McAfee (36:19.373)
Right? Mental state and consent and wow. I mean, how do you even, I mean, it's like, we got to think of our wives when it comes to this thing, because I don't know about your wife, but most women can always like, they have an exciting memory and men don't. And it's like, where were you on March 20th, 1999? And they have to literally like go back and establish all these facts and really kind of, I mean, it's literally a court of law. So.

The Manly Catholic (36:19.725)
layers and I'm sure it's like a lot. Yes, exactly. Yeah, which, right.

The Manly Catholic (36:37.23)
Yeah, right.

Shaun McAfee (36:46.989)
Yeah, it's tough. So that one was difficult to get right without leading people astray and just saying what the book really needed it to say while not kind of underserving the topic.

The Manly Catholic (36:58.766)
Right. I did want to ask you because I've never asked on the podcast about this, but I think it's it's something that I think may also be misconstrued, but yoga and because I saw that was in your book and you know, again, it's like, well, it's harmless. You know, it's just, you know, stretching and things like that. But yoga also has obviously religious implications as well, especially certain types of yoga. Do you mind?

Do you mind if we dive into that a little bit? Because I think it's another concept that or topic that can be controversial amongst Catholics too. And where it's like, it's not a big deal. I'm not like inviting myself up for anything. But then it's talked to exorcist too. We would say, you better watch what kind of instructor you're going through, like the third eye and stuff like that too, because you can kind of be treading on on dangerous territory there. So do you mind just kind of sharing what you know about it? We can kind of have a back and forth with that.

Shaun McAfee (37:29.325)
Not at all.

Shaun McAfee (37:56.173)
Sure, there's not enough that can be said about this, but then I can try to put it as concisely as I possibly can. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an ascetic lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with fitness and all the ways that you can be fit. There's nothing. And so the marriage of the fitness lifestyle and the ascetic lifestyle, which is hopefully through prayer, are certainly Christian things. We find in the tradition of the saints, I mean, St. Simon Stylites, he

The Manly Catholic (38:04.334)
Yeah.

Shaun McAfee (38:26.221)
He sat on a pillar for like 40 years. We know of the Counter -Reformation Saints, even Pope John Paul II, his biographers have known him for pounding his flesh in the words of St. Paul. So the ascetic lifestyle is not lost on Catholics and yoga, those athletic...

You know, balancing your body with the stretches of, of, you know, it can be quite intense. Anybody who's done those workouts knows that it's not just downward dog and stretching your back. I mean, there's some real heavy lifting of your own supported weight in awkward positions. It creates an excellent strength and endurance. but okay. So there's my preamble, but I will tell you, you said implications. Yoga is a religious implication. It is.

a religious workout. It is a sacred item to an Eastern religion called, you know, that's Buddha and what's the other one? There's Buddhism and the Hindu and the Baha 'i, they all take on this, you know, religion of karma and...

The Manly Catholic (39:35.31)
Hindu.

Shaun McAfee (39:42.765)
you know, this aura of the person that's within the person. And that's really what yoga is paced around. It's not just becoming strong and, you know, building endurance and this and that so you can do your yard work. It's, and have a healthy lifestyle. It's literally a, I'm centered on me and I'm the center of my universe and everything else around me is kind of a placated reality. That's really what that whole,

sensation and that whole religious aspect of it is built around. What does that do? That removes God from that person's psyche, from that person's approach to their own religion. That's of course counter -Christian. That doesn't jive well with what Catholicism preaches, what Christianity preaches, which is our master of the universe is God and he is an actual person. The universe around us is created, it is physical, so we don't believe in this dualistic

So, yoga has a lot of principles that are deeply rooted in Eastern religion, pagan religion, and they're very harmful to what Catholics know and believe. So, if we want to be good Catholics, if we want to be good Christians, we will stray from that. Now, there are excellent, there are excellent...

You said this would be a back and forth and taken all the time. There are excellent alternatives. One of them is Pietra, which means like on the rock. It's like Catholic. Yeah, yeah. It's a Catholic alternative to yoga. I mean, it's all the kind of the same stuff. But otherwise, I would say that people should be really careful, like you said. The exorcists, they say, be careful of who you do it with.

The Manly Catholic (41:10.03)
fun.

The Manly Catholic (41:18.03)
Is that Catholic yoga? Not Catholic yoga, but Catholic fitness. Okay.

Shaun McAfee (41:34.477)
just doing the exercises in your backyard, if you call it downward dog, fine. But doing the namaste pose and doing the meditations and whatnot that go with it out of some sort of sutra book that teaches you those positions, that doesn't jive well with Catholicism and eventually those lead to error, at least a really poor worldview that doesn't jive with it. So we ought to be on the guard on those sorts of things and there's alternatives to that.

The Manly Catholic (42:04.43)
Yeah, 100%. You know, and I remember a story too. This just came to me when I don't know which exorcist I was listening to, but he was recounting a story when it was actually this older woman who her husband died. And I think for a couple of years, but basically her husband, what she thought was her husband, appeared to her in their bedroom and it was a demon, but she, you know,

widow, grieving widow, things like that. The way she thought was her husband asked, can I get into bed with you? And she said, yes. And, you know, for us again, that would seem like a very harmless thing to do. But in the demonic world, in the spiritual world, that one, yes, opened herself up to demonic would end up being demonic obsession. She wasn't possessed or anything. But this demon would like wouldn't leave her alone. And then finally, she went to see a priest and she was liberated from it. But.

You know, again, like, you know, you might think you're doing something innocent or innocuous, things like that. You know, people mess around with Ouija boards. Sometimes, you know, nothing comes of it. But a lot of times that one, yes, you agree to it. You're inviting the spiritual realm. When all exorcists again say, especially with the Ouija board, there's nothing good coming out from a Ouija board. It's only evil spirits that are responding to that kind of stuff. So.

you know, even if what you think is innocent, be careful with what you are getting yourself into, especially if you're unsure of, because there's, you know, Eastern medicinal practices too, that I know can be very on edge with Catholics too as well, because again, it's not the thing in and of itself, but it's what it's attached to, right? So even what you said, yoga, in your book, it says yoga formally belongs to the Hindu religion.

as a means of using bodily positions of a strain mixed with relaxation to grow in spiritual, you know, quote unquote mindfulness. And then various yoga disciplines help the Hindu achieve, I'm gonna butcher, moksha or union with the divine, all encompassing life force known as Brahman or Brahman. So again, it's what you're inviting yourself into, you know? And again, it's very self -centered, you know, becoming a God, becoming divine within yourself, finding your inner self. I think,

Shaun McAfee (44:14.733)
Right.

The Manly Catholic (44:20.11)
Are they the third eye? Is that yoga or am I mixing things up? I forget. Okay. Yeah. So, so same thing. So, just, again, a book like this too, cause you talk about Mormonism as well. Kind of brief on that. Protestantism, some of the heresies, like you say too, you know, theotokos, you know, which is, you know, the mother of God, Mary, mother of God. So, you know, I, I, I can't.

Shaun McAfee (44:21.837)
I believe that's yoga. Yeah, that's Hindu.

The Manly Catholic (44:43.854)
recommend this enough, Shaun. I mean, I'm really impressed. Even just flipping through again, the imagery in it is beautiful. Again, I love the Catholic tips that you put in. It's just it's just was that just kind of your little insert that you wanted to add or because they're really helpful. It's almost like a little anecdote to dive deeper into certain topics that you that you want to talk about.

Shaun McAfee (44:55.661)
Yeah!

Shaun McAfee (45:00.973)
Yeah, you know, I felt like on a lot of topics, I got through the kind of body that made all of these really identical and consistent. But then I wanted to say just a little bit more just to be helpful. You know, I've got the further reading and, you know, more discovery in each one of these sections. But the Catholic tip was really my either personal experience or just, you know, abbreviated experiences of others and how to be successful with these topics. So.

If it's Mormonism, it's, you know, hey, here's how to engage Mormons. Here's something they're sensitive about. Or if it's yoga, I don't think we had one in there about yoga, but it's either something about evangelism or apologetics or just practical life tips or how to go about seeking this in a matter of devotion. Because we want people to understand these things, but great, you got the gee whiz, but I really want, I mean, personally, I want...

And I want others to want a desire to immerse themselves in a life that's going to sanctify them. And that's really why we're Catholic. So if it's all the things Catholic, it's all the things sanctifying.

The Manly Catholic (46:06.67)
Absolutely, amen to that. Now I wanna ask you two, when you put a book together like this, what was the one that excited you the most? Like one that.

Shaun McAfee (46:18.765)
The easy ones.

The Manly Catholic (46:24.11)
Well, maybe like maybe a topic that you knew about, but I know you talked about annulments, but maybe you knew about, but then you dove in and was like, this is even more in depth and more fascinating than I realized. You know, something that like you got and was like, I want to actually after this, I want to dive deeper into that because this kind of sparked my interest with it.

Shaun McAfee (46:34.221)
Yeah.

Shaun McAfee (46:40.365)
I think the social ones, the euthanasia, abortion, transgenderism, treatment of the dead, end of life issues, there are so many in here. That's what I think sets this book apart is it's not just an encyclopedia. These are topics you won't find in any Catholic encyclopedia. Probably very few people are brave enough to explore all of those very difficult and touchy subjects and put the slap of the church's definition on them.

The Manly Catholic (46:42.958)
Okay.

Shaun McAfee (47:10.317)
if it's, if it's there, so, so those were easily the ones that I was like, I gotta get these right. And it wasn't like easy to write. I mean, you said excited. I'm not sure if I was excited, but I definitely was honing all of my skills and effort in on those to be sure that, you know, those touchy subjects were dealt with well, that they were encouraging, but also, you know, we didn't waste any mincing of words trying to, you know, dance around difficult topics.

The Manly Catholic (47:41.038)
Yeah, again, that's you're right. It is something to I think a lot of Catholics steer away from, you know, you have one on racism and like you said, like, you know, euthanasia and immigration. Again, these are things that are very prominent in our day nowadays, especially with an election coming up. You know, Lord have mercy on us come November. But, you know, it's things that we do need to talk about, because I think if we pretend that they don't exist, that's actually what makes the divide even bigger.

Shaun McAfee (47:47.789)
Right. Immigration.

The Manly Catholic (48:08.366)
and verses if we talk about it, we have good understanding of it. Again, there are certain things that the church may not definitively define it, but they give us principles and guidelines in order to have a productive conversation with it as well. So, I...

Shaun McAfee (48:19.213)
Yeah, like yoga, yoga, the church is pretty silent on it, but we've got our sensibilities and a magisterium that gives us enough wisdom to be sure of what our left and right boundaries are. So we can kind of play with those and talk about those subjects with some accuracy and definitely some cool heads.

The Manly Catholic (48:23.534)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (48:42.862)
Do you talk about, I couldn't see it, but I might have missed it. Like drugs, like marijuana, alcohol, church teaching on that. Okay. Okay. You know what, second edition coming at you. Because, well, cause then too it's, you know, cause I mean, alcohol is touchy subject, marijuana, because it's legal now mostly in a lot of states, you know, and then, and kind of what is the fine line? Cause I've heard Catholic size,

Shaun McAfee (48:49.069)
Actually, no, I don't talk about substances. No, maybe that would have been a good idea. Yeah. You're right, exactly. I'm always taking suggestions.

The Manly Catholic (49:11.438)
both for and against like, well, it's fine. You know, as long as it's medicinal or as fine as long as you're not, you know, unpaired and things like that. But, you know, it is touch the subject for a lot of people and I think it would be helpful. So just, just add a little plug for you there, Shaun, for your second edition there.

Shaun McAfee (49:25.869)
Yeah, I'd probably immediately point to Noah. I mean, Noah's sin was, you know, not, I mean, his sin was drunkenness. So it wasn't just a matter of having consumed alcohol. It was giving his body and his mind over to something other than himself, a substance. And so, you know, when we allow our conscience and our behavior to be manipulated by these things that yes, God created,

The Manly Catholic (49:32.206)
gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

Shaun McAfee (49:52.557)
but aren't sought in moderation. I think, I mean, that can be done with anything. I mean, you can literally overdose on oxygen and water. And that can be, that can kind of be a sin if you, if you don't treat your body as a temple. So, yeah, that would be a wonderful topic. You're right. I failed. I should have, I should have included it, Jim. No, I'm just kidding.

The Manly Catholic (50:15.214)
You know what, we're gonna take the book back and we're gonna redo it all again, right? Well, Shaun, where can our listeners get the book? Where can they find out more about you and any other parting thoughts for our listeners?

Shaun McAfee (50:18.285)
Yeah, send it back.

Shaun McAfee (50:30.029)
I say this in earnest, please go to your local Catholic bookstore and ask them to order this book. Supporting those is the backbone of the American economy, those small businesses. And of course, when you support those Catholic bookstores, you're supporting families. So please do that. Otherwise go to Amazon or sophieinstitute .com or anywhere Catholic books are sold, Barnes and Noble or Catholic communities and whatnot.

The Manly Catholic (50:40.334)
Amen.

The Manly Catholic (50:55.694)
Barnes and Noble, are they still selling Catholic books?

Shaun McAfee (50:57.677)
Absolutely, they have this one, isn't that cool? They have most of my books, you can order through them. Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (51:01.518)
Do they really?

Wow. You made it, Shaun. You made it on the Barnes and Noll's bookshelf.

Shaun McAfee (51:09.069)
I don't know if it's going to be on their bookshelf, but it's definitely within their catalog.

The Manly Catholic (51:13.198)
You know what, that's all that really matters, you know? Well hey, Shaun, thank you so much for coming on. It's always a blast having you on. We'll have to have you on when you write another book coming back, coming at ya. Do you have any in the works, by the way? Can you not announce that? Any ideas?

Shaun McAfee (51:14.477)
Ha ha ha ha!

Shaun McAfee (51:23.629)
Thank you.

Shaun McAfee (51:27.917)
I can, it's fine. It's fine. They're for your kids. I'll just say that.

The Manly Catholic (51:33.102)
fantastic. Now, didn't you, did you write a book on video games or did we talk about that last time?

Shaun McAfee (51:39.085)
I wrote a book on social media. It's called Social Media Magisterium. And yeah, we didn't really talk about video games. I would love to write a book on video games. That'd be really fun.

The Manly Catholic (51:54.414)
We should have you back on. Let's talk about video games. That's another, that could be touchy subject too for people. Because I mean, Temperance, yeah, I mean, I was, I mean, I was totally addicted growing up as a kid. I was, you know, Call of Duty. I was into the sports games a lot too, but yeah, so we'll have to, we'll have to bring you back on and talk about that. It's a little teaser, but yeah, everyone, I will leave links in the show notes for the book. We're to purchase it on Sophia, a couple of the encyclicals that Shaun mentioned as well.

Shaun McAfee (51:55.565)
Yeah. Yes. Sure. Yeah. That's an addiction for some. Yeah.

Shaun McAfee (52:08.845)
Awesome.

Shaun McAfee (52:13.165)
Okay. Okay.

The Manly Catholic (52:24.558)
And we will, yeah, anything else that Shaun wants me to add, I will make sure to put some links in there. But until next time, go out there and be a saint.