Ep 87 - From the Super Bowl to Sacred Texts: Tim Hill's Story

Speaker 1: 0:20

God truly works in mysterious ways, and our guest on the podcast today is another other than Tim Hill from Tan Books. Tim is just the epitome of God working in mysterious ways. He has an incredible story of how he spent over 20 plus years in sports broadcasting and journalism. On one of his very first assignments he got to go to the Super Bowl, but how it turned out pretty disastrous for him, but how that transitioned into his now role with Tan Books, which just an incredible journey. Tim is an amazing guy. He will make you laugh. He has a great voice for radio and for podcasts because, hey, you know what. He worked in that field for quite a while. Now, a little bit different Sports took Catholicism. But he says in this conversation that we have today how he was able to mesh his love for sports and his love for his faith into his current job. We also talk about just an amazing series called the Tan Classic Series, which you can get exclusively at tanbookscom. It gives you books to like an introduction to the devout life by St Francis to Sales, the Imitation of Christ, st Therese's autobiography, so many great titles Again you can get specifically at Tan Books. But for this conversation Tim is an amazing guest. Excuse me if I can speak clearly, but before we dive into that again, this is your last chance, gentlemen. Last chance St Michael's Lent, exodus 90. They are giving, they're doing bringing back and a fantastic, just a fantastic tradition that has been lost for a while. I have never heard of it, at least it probably hasn't been lost, but just it's not commonplace in the Catholic world. But St Michael's feast day is Friday, september 29th. You can still join Exodus 90's St Michael's Lent. They're giving a series of incredible talks on spiritual warfare, brought to you by men who have experienced the demonic, who deal with it every single day, including Father Carlos Martins, who gave an amazing talk actually the first talk that he gave talking about the demonic and how us as men, just by being men, we can exercise our authority over the devil. As baptized sons of God, you can hear from men, like I said, who have had a time of experience with it, but also you learn to prepare yourself as a man and how you can directly defeat Satan with the help of God or Father, st Michael, the Archangel, your guardian angel, and all the other angels in St. So, again, don't miss out on this great opportunity. St Michael's feast day is Friday, september 29th. It is not too late to join. So, without further ado, here is my conversation with Tim Hill at Tan Books. Enjoy and God bless. Alright, hello all. Welcome to another episode of the Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and with me tonight we have a very special guest from Tan Books. We have Mr Tim Hill. Tim, welcome to the Manly Catholic podcast.

Speaker 2: 3:51

James, thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Speaker 1: 3:54

Yes, me too. I'm very excited to hear about your journey, hear about what you're doing at Tan. But before we get to that, a little bit more background on you. We'll start with the St Michael prayer. This was the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen, St Michael, the Archangel Defendant and the Beheader, Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him. We humbly pray and do, thou, a Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, cast in the Hell Satan and all the evil spirits, pray about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen, the name of the Father and the Son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Well, Tim, before I kick it to you, to give you, our audience, just a background information, I'll ask. The first question I would like to ask my guest is if you could be the patron saint of anything, what would it be and why?

Speaker 2: 4:39

It's a great question, man. It's a daunting question. Do people normally just jump right in and say, yeah, I know what I'd be the patron saint of? To me that's a really humbling question, but I think my answer is one that there actually isn't one of that I know of. Anyway, I think I would love to be the patron saint of coaches because where I'm at in my life I'm doing that a lot these days. I've got three boys playing all kinds of youth sports and I know there are a lot of coaches out there me certainly towards the top of the list that can use as much help from saints as we could get day in and day out, man.

Speaker 1: 5:20

You know, I'm going to be getting into that realm too. My oldest is four, so I'll be shortly joining you, tim. But I was helping my brother-in-law I just went to help him out with like a basketball practice because I grew up playing basketball and he texted me like a schedule of what they were doing. I was like man, you got this, but that coaching is a very hard. So all the coaches out there, whether you're professional or just at the youth level, I have mad respect for you. Coaching is very hard. It takes a special person to do that and do it well as well.

Speaker 2: 5:54

So props to you for doing that I don't know about that well part, but I agree, especially when your kids are involved, right, and then you got family involved and other parents involved and the whole thing. If you grew up playing basketball, like you mentioned, you know there's so many lessons that can be learned and I feel like you know it's one thing to tell your kids something and maybe you're not quite there, since you just have a four-year-old in James, but man, I noticed most of the time it's in one ear, out the other, but if you can show them and then if they can see it themselves, it's so much more impactful and that's why I'm just a huge, huge believer in youth sports, for so many lessons learned and just so much to be learned on a playing field, on a team in general, that you can certainly cross over into a lot of Catholic values 100%.

Speaker 1: 6:48

Yeah, I mean so many life lessons that I learned just came from playing sports too, and, like my closest friends growing up were all in sports, because, especially as men too, you know, we really connect with each other by doing things together and working together to achieve a certain goal, whether it's a championship or to win a game or something like that. So, yeah, so many lessons in sports. There's no, we'll talk about in a little bit too, but I wanted to get a little bit more of a background on you, tim. So I know obviously you work for Tan Books, you work, but you were not always with Tan. So maybe get our audience a bit of a background on you, however much you want to share, and we'll kind of go from there.

Speaker 2: 7:22

Oh, I'm an open book, james. I'm an open book for sure. I love working at Tan Books. I've been there, man, about eight months now, maybe more than that, maybe nine months or so but this is kind of a second career for me. I got there kind of the owner and the CEO of Tan Books, connor Gallagher, grew up with a cousin of mine and they went to Franciscan together in Steubenville and thought about being priests and ended up going in a different route that God had planned for them and just kind of ended up back there after I ended up getting fired from my previous career after I was in sports talk radio radio station, had a vaccine mandate and I said no, thank you, and they said you're fired and that was pretty much my 20 year plus career and as a local sports broadcaster. That was an amazing blessing. But to me it was pretty clear that God had a different path for me and now I've been really fortunate enough to work for Tan Books, like I said, just under a year and doing podcast stuff with them and just whatever I can. That has used some of my sports broadcasting background with video and editing and things like that, some writing communication stuff. So it's been a tremendous blessing in my life for sure, and Tan Books is not too far from my house and has always been kind of in my neighborhood. But I never really understood the just the wealth of amazing Catholic foundational books and wisdom and just opportunities for formation that they offer and really a proud proud to be a part of the entire organization 100%.

Speaker 1: 11:06

Yeah, I know, when I first encountered Tano a few years ago as a journey into the Catholic faith, I mean so many, like you said, amazing. Just not only obviously the Catholic classics, but they really put pride in a quality product too. So it's not just stuff you get at the thrift store or anything like that and the commentaries which we're going to talk about in a little bit too, just beautifully bounded and made and it really brings out the beauty of what Catholicism can offer. So, but getting back to your story a bit, tim, describe how that was going from 20 plus years, as you mentioned, in local sports broadcasting, a more of a secular culture and world, into now this totally classical Catholicism world. Describe that transition for you and was it easy, was it hard, was it a big adjustment or did you just jump right in and feel right at home?

Speaker 2: 11:59

So there was a bit of a transition period I think there was. I tried to do my own thing for a little while and I worked some odd jobs in between. So it wasn't exactly like one day I was at the radio station, the next day I worked for 10 books, so that, I think, allowed me to process the whole deal. But just the overall appreciation I have and what's the right word for it, maybe the piece that I get with working with and for people who share the same foundational values that I have in the Catholic faith, is just really kind of life altering, if that makes any sense. Like that it my work life, home life and faith life. Well, you know, it was always a very distinct line. If you work in corporate America it is, you know, check your, your home and your faith stuff at the door and do your job and then you go back to that and this is just so much different. You know, I told my boss, matt Kale, that, hey, you know, I've been really lucky in my life for about 20 plus years I've gotten paid to watch football. He's like, well, at 10, you can get paid to help people make become saints. So it's at least a lateral move right and he nailed it right on the head. Man, it's a, it's a line I'll repeat and probably until I I am done working or just done in general here on this planet. But yeah, it's hard, it's a really hard transition, I think, to describe. But it's one of those things where every day that I'm, I'm fortunate enough to go into work, it's clear to me in so many ways, kind of small ways, big ways, sometimes throughout the day, sometimes some days more than others for sure, but it's clear to me that, like this was the plan that God had for me and I, just this has been a continual lesson and kind of surrendering to God's will and understanding that, hey, I'm not in charge at all. You know, I thought I had a career and a plan and goals and all that stuff. Well, that was great, but that's I've heard that old, old line right, how do you make God laugh? Have a plan. And so I've. I've tried to to continually understand how fortunate I am in so many ways, especially just to have the foundation of my Catholic faith to rely on in some trying times and then to be blessed like like you mentioned, we'll bring it right back to I'm literally surrounded by all the wisdom of the saints. Every day I go into work and I mean it's difficult to put into words the feeling that you, that I, have doing that, and how much different that is from my, my previous work experience.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Oh, 100%. Yeah, I mean just hearing you talk about Tana. Clearly it's it's it's an environment that you enjoy and something that you're definitely been called to do, and I love that. You know, god is God always has. You know, god has a sense of humor for sure. You know, we, we make all these plans and we think we have everything cooking, especially as men. You know, we're naturally planners and then God's like what are you, what are you doing down there? You know, just give it to me and it's going to be so much better than you can ever imagine. So, oh, man. So I do have one question for you before we move on from your your sports background. Is there one because I'm a huge sports man is there one event that you covered or that you just remember distinctly that just really stands out? I'm just like I will always remember this, no matter as long as I live.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Man, I was so lucky I like kind of bucket list stuff I got to check off for the most part. I got to see my alma mater, the university of South Carolina, win their first national championships in baseball out in Omaha and I'm a big baseball guy, you know. Got to spend father's days out there with my dad, it was fantastic. Got to go to the masters that was not too far away from Columbia, south Carolina, where I was working, and you know just be around all these amazing athletes. But there is one I'd love to tell you, and again I think it goes back to what you're talking about, about God's sense of humor, the Super Bowls on top of almost every sports nuts bucket list right. First year I got a job back in Columbia, south Carolina, where I happened to go to school. I spent three years out in West Texas at my first job covering local sports, loved it, but it was high school stuff, it was division two, division three stuff. So fortunate to get a job covering an SEC university back in Columbia, south Carolina. Our sister station I was working with is in Charlotte, north Carolina, the Carolina Panthers. That season happened to have a great year Jake Delones, their quarterback Steve Smith, their wide receiver, thomas Davis, running or excuse me, steven Davis running the football all over the place. They go to the Super Bowl. They need some extra people to help them. My sister station does never worked with them in Charlotte. Really, they call them, say, hey, we need you to go to Super Bowl. Awesome, right, amazing. Houston Texas Playing the New England Patriots. This is kind of early Tom Brady days. We go there. We're there like 10. We get there before the teams get there. I'm out there on the tarmac with a camera before the teams get there. They're like 10 days. But my assignment at the Super Bowl was to be a camera guy for the new morning show in Charlotte that just happens to air from four to seven AM. We're in Houston, that's central time zone, so we're starting at three AM. So after about five days of this I'm back in reality. Right, this is a job. I'm away from my home. My family Can't wait for the game to start. I'm going to be on the game. I'm a camera guy, sports guy, so game about to start. They, uh man, the Super Bowl it's a cluster right, maybe biggest sports media event there is. So there's so many just media people in general, but they mark off a little spots for you on the sideline. I got a great spot. I'm right there in the end zone and right before the game starts one of my coworkers comes up and says All right, we got one guy over there, one guy over here, they're going to shoot the game. We need you to shoot the sideline. I said, huh, you need me to. Okay, so after the action I'll make sure. And good, good sideline shots. They're like no, you just shoot the sideline the whole game. So I am this kid in a candy store on the field of the Super Bowl, but I've just been told that I have a sugar allergy and I can't even really look at it without getting sick. I just have to. So I'm trying to watch the game like out of the corner of my eye while shooting this, and it ended up being like the most frustrating experience of my life. But again, another example of how God has a great sense of humor. I ended up having to run a tape. This is old school days. Out to the van at the very end of the game they line up to kick the game, winning field goal. The Patriots do. I am watching on the little screen that's this big in the van that's black and white and actually, as they're lining up to make the kick, I hear fireworks going off and celebration in the stadium because it's on a delay. So what's just happened here? I already know what's happened anyway. I'm like oh, this is the worst, worst work experience I've ever had at the biggest sporting event in the history of man.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Oh gosh, tim, I'm just, I'm hurting for you as a sports, just the agony of I'm ready, let's go. It's just. Yeah, you need to actually face the other. You know, that reminds me of all the security guys you know at the arenas and stuff who had to face and because look to make sure no one's going to run under the quarter, or something like that's what that reminds me of. I just I felt so bad for them.

Speaker 2: 20:23

Exactly One foot one foot. Note to that too. That was the Janet Jackson halftime Super Bowl. I didn't even know about it until Tuesday. No clue. I was underneath the stadium eating a hot dog at halftime. Nobody on the field knew about it at all.

Speaker 1: 20:39

Well, see, I guess there's a blessing. And this guy, see, god, did not want you to be exposed to that. So there you go. Oh, man, that's, that's really well, we'll have to have you on just to talk about sports and relate that to the Catholic faith, for sure. Well, let's. So let's transition to to dance. Like I said, when I first kind of got a hold of your, got to know you was this incredible series that that tan is is putting out. It's called the the tan classics deluxe edition. I actually have to see if I can pull it up here so people can see just a beautiful cover. Let me move my mic out of the way here for all you. So this is an introduction to the devout life by St Francis to sales. But it's a series of five books that tan put together and just beautifully bounded with let's see Smithstone binding and gold foil. So it has the invitation of Christ, the story of a soul abandonment to divine providence, the interior castle and an introduction to the devout life. And I know Tim to tan is doing a podcast on the commentaries to. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 21:47

Yeah, exactly. So we have these, these beautiful books, like you mentioned, right, and these are not the ones Like. We have five dollar books every month, right, we want to make, we want to help people become saints, however we can. These are not that. These are the ones that you you're going to have in your home or passed down, maybe from generation to generation. Maybe you want to give for a, you know, a gift, for a nice birthday anniversary celebration, whatever it is. These are the are top of the line books that are maybe even as much as artwork as they are books, but they're not the ones you're going to write in the margins, the whole thing. These are a little bit different, but it's a way of honoring classic Catholic works that just have timeless wisdom. Now, I don't know about you, james, but sometimes I need a little help getting through those, especially when you're talking about some of these authors. Thomas, a campus, for instance, you know it's 500 plus years ago. The language is a little bit different. So what we've done is is where we're trying to do. Our mission at tan is to help people become saints. So how can we do that best? Obviously, we have a lots of books, and you can go on tanbookscom and check them all out and the whole thing. But okay, what's something else that we can do, especially in the 21st century with the technological advantages we have? I'm sitting on my phone right here talking to you across the country, nothing to it, just like we're in the same room. Well, let's use some of those technological advances as well. What can we give people for free and how can we use who we know to to help edify and kind of solidify these, these great works that might need a little bit of assistance at least does for me. And so that's where the commentary series came up. We have experts, absolute experts on these works. Sit down with a microphone and go through what they feel like are the most important parts of these books. We have imitation of Christ. We have Father Robert Nixon, who's translated now multiple works. He's just kind of unearthed them from his monastery in Western Australia. He's translated them from Latin to English for the first time. They're fantastic. But he's an expert on the imitation of Christ. So he went through for 17 episodes this second best selling book of all time only behind the Bible and sits down and for 15 to 20 minutes per episode, just kind of goes through and does it kind of chronologically, starts at chapter one and goes through to the end of book number four and points out All right, here's what you can take away from this. And then the interior castle, right down the street from us in Gastonia, north Carolina. His father read at St Anne and he's a third order Carmelite and expert on St Teresa of Avila. And so the interior castle man, that is mystical and some really high level depth into the soul and he breaks those down into 20 episodes and I listened to these and I just go to almost like a meditative state where I still might not understand everything I'm hearing, but I feel like it is really it's getting in there, you know it's, it's, it's permeating whether I'm clicking on all cylinders up in my head or whether it's just getting more into my soul and more just kind of a blessing to hear and be around and be a part of. So we have some free reading plans that will go along with those. We call them classic companions, where we we try to put it in context to help those. I mean, even if you are familiar, even if you have read them before it's, it's certainly helpful to know exactly where in history these things were written and what else was going on. I mean, st Teresa of Avila was persecuted and there's all kind of stuff going on that is that I had no idea about. That is helpful for me to understand. Ok, well, when she says I know someone that she's actually talking about herself because they tried to take her first biography away from her because she was basically professing the Catholic faith in a time where the government in Spain did not enjoy that at all. They didn't appreciate that one bit. So she had to kind of write around that and was asked to and the whole thing. So the commentary series to go along with these classic deluxe edition books are really just there to help everyone. If you need a little helping hand, or even if you don't feel like you can dive into the book right now, well, maybe you can listen to 15 minutes per day on the way to work or on the way home and and just add that to your prayer life in a lot of ways 100% no, and I love that tan decided to, because obviously it's great to publish these amazing books but again, a lot of the classic Catholic texts can be intimidating for a lot of people, especially you know St Teresa of Abilah.

Speaker 1: 26:46

I know she's the one that just kind of seems like a stream of consciousness where it's like what the heck is she talking about here? And even you know St Teresa of Lesu, which I know is one of the ones as well the story of the soul. A lot of people don't enjoy her style of writing and you know it's just, it's different contexts from where we're at. We can't really relate to these people by then having these experts come in and providing that contest it's just like the Holy Scriptures right Is having context to what was actually happening in Jesus's day and the surrounding traditions and things like that. It just adds so much more depth and meaning to what you're actually hearing and learning about. And same thing with these classics. So I love that tan decided to provide these commentaries for people, because a lot of times, you know, people just kind of oh, I can't read that. That's maybe above my understanding level and bringing down to a more kind of a basic not basic level, but a more easier to digest content for a lot of people to do too, and, like you said too, you can use it as a prayer time, meditative time or just, you know, on your commute, because I think there are about 15, I think I said 15, 20 minutes per episode for most of them, aren't they? So it's really easy to digest for most of them.

Speaker 2: 28:01

Yeah, and that's the idea, right, tan? We're certainly all about tradition and all about. You know, if you can sit with the book, that's probably the best way to digest information in 2023. You probably should avoid a lot of other stuff, but we're sitting here on a podcast right now. We understand that you need to meet people where they are right and we need to be realistic. And, you know, talked about it being intimidated. I think it absolutely is, but I'm hopeful that this will take a little bit of that intimidation away from folks. And I don't know about you, james, but there's something in me maybe it's that old sports background where you got to win or you got to give 100% Like. Sometimes I feel like if I'm not going to be able to read an entire book, then I'm not even going to try, you know. But it doesn't have to be that. I don't think that God is calling all of us to read all five of these classic deluxe edition books, for instance, or, you know, the entire Tan Book Library, written where all the saints are in there. I think these opportunities are presented in front of us and we're expected to do our best right and to be open to what comes our way, and this is kind of our attempt to just help people as much as possible in that way 100%.

Speaker 1: 29:25

So for all of you listening out, there is buy Tan Books and listen to the Manly Catholic Podcast, and that's about all you should be able to digest in your life and you'll become a saint right.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Nothing to it On the fast track.

Speaker 1: 29:39

So okay, so we've touched on it a little bit, tim, and you mentioned it at least twice now. So Tan's overarching theme, their goal, their mission, is to help people become saints. So how is Tan and their mission and how they they go about their business? How are they striving to do that now and moving forward into the future?

Speaker 2: 30:02

Yeah, and in every way, I guess is the best way to put that, and when I go into work tomorrow it might be a new way. That's that's kind of how Tan works. I mentioned our CEO, connor Gallagher man, every time you're in his presence you can feel and he told me one time he's like it's. It's kind of my life's both mission and frustration that I have all of this that I'm trying to get out and let everyone know, and sometimes it just doesn't come out in the best way or I don't feel like it connects and the whole thing it is. It is Connor's personal mission and then professional for sure, and everyone else who who works at Tan to try to constantly figure out the best way to reach the most people and spread the word of Jesus through the Catholic faith. It's really that simple and for us in 2023, man, there's so many examples of just such timeless wisdom that we can go back to and we can very easily inject it into our modern day lives and our modern day issues that we have that I know I have with my three boys every day, or dealing with family members or whatever. But you can ignore all this other mess that is maybe trendy right now or whatever it is, and just just wade through that I feel like and really hear wisdom that has just continued to touch people and lift people to God, to heaven, through centuries and centuries, and whatever way we can do that through releasing old books by saints like St Enselm. We have another podcast we're just putting out now as well they're called the spiritual masters, where Connor sits down with another expert and they just talk about a saint and then maybe some of the saints works and then how we can apply that to today. So any way possible, I think, is the short answer to your question. My very long answer, though, is in in whatever way that we can and we're trying to do it multiple ways whether it's through the website, or new initiatives, or new releases with living authors or kind of unearthing older texts.

Speaker 1: 33:38

Yeah, and what I love too about tan is that they're really highlighting the saints. You know and and we talked about sports you know to start the podcast and how do you become a better athlete, right Is you? You emulate, you look to professional athletes, right, like we talked about basketball. You know, you look to growing up.

Speaker 2: 33:58

For me, it was Kobe Bryant you know you're a Kobe guy, I'm a Jordan guy, oh no.

Speaker 1: 34:05

I was. You know, I grew up in California, Tim, so I was a big Laker fan growing up. So you know Kobe, may he rest in peace. But Kobe was, kobe was my guy growing up, so I won't hold it. We got pushed. We got pushed that aside, though you know so, but yeah so. So saints too. Like I said, we're we're trying to become saints. That's our ultimate mission here on earth. And then tan is really highlighting the saints. But I kind of want to transition that back into into sports, because you mentioned coaching, especially to, and you know, being a coach, you, you have so much influence, especially if you're doing like for you, you're teaching and coaching young boys. So I want to kind of get your perspective on this. Tim is, how, how important is it for coaches or for leaders in general to kind of inject that, the, the, that responsibility that is upon them? How can they do that responsibly and put that onto, you know, these young men and women that they might be coaching and leading to, to be a saint in the Catholic sense, but also just to be a better person and a more secular sense?

Speaker 2: 35:15

Well, you know, as as you were talking there, it dawned on me because I don't know how it is in your family, but in my family in general, the, the dads, the men in my family at family functions are always pretty quiet. I don't know about like they watch golf, mostly, you know. Let's say a few words. They were. They were the providers. So as I think about it, I think really the the most words that I heard, the most, I should say the most leadership I saw in action growing up from men, were priests and coaches. I think that's the most leadership I saw in action from male figures. And I was recently listened to someone talk, compare the, the coach player relationship to almost a therapeutic type relationship, almost like a therapist and a patient. You could look at it that way too. I mean, there's so much psychology. If you're you're a Kobe guy, you know Phil Jackson and you know what a master he was at all of that as well. I think it's so tremendously important to use the gifts that God gave us and for men in this age where, especially in this country, we're so blessed, where most of us aren't going off to war, certainly aren't forced into it, where you would automatically have to assume some leadership positions and where you know so many people throughout the centuries have had that, that's been the male role, right. But I think we transition that so much in our society into sports from a male perspective being able to be a shoulder to lean on or give some words of wisdom and example for kids and how to handle failure All of that is so vitally important and I think is maybe even underappreciated in a lot of ways in society. A lot like teachers are underappreciated. You know I would have, I would have mentioned males as teachers. I didn't have a lot of male teachers growing up. I don't know about you, maybe more professors in college, but that wasn't my experience growing up. So to me that's kind of the teacher role. For a lot of men that I've encountered in my life has been through coaching and I think it's just just so vitally important in so many ways. And I you can hear some horror stories sometimes of when it goes wrong, when guys have been negatively impacted, or we all know that basketball player growing up who's still in his 30s or 40s says yeah, I would have made it in college, but my high school coach didn't like me, right, like oh, is that really what happened? I don't know that's really what happened, but obviously it didn't go well, right, and there are some huge scars left by these things. So you know, I always try to tell my wife let's just try to screw our kids up as little as possible, right. And so I kind of take that approach and coaching as well, like, hey, man, as long as the adults stay out of the way, for the most part kids are going to love playing sports. Let's just try to, you know, give them the positive experience as possible. And I never realized you mentioned how important you found it to be in your life how many lessons you learn. I don't think I consciously realized how valuable my sports experience was until I got my 30s. And just I think, the more I encountered people who didn't have those experiences and saw the choices they were making and maybe how they were handling adversity or changes and transitions, that I really started to value it that much more and realize just how foundational it was for me. You know, it's not just, hey, give 100% in practice. And you know, always try your best to make the shot or whatever. It is Like that that's seeped in man and it certainly has bled over into other things in my life, and I think it's just so important for us as men and especially those who have a strong faith and understand the values that the Catholic church certainly ingrained in me and just espouses and strives for might be the best way to put it to pass that on and to try to be anywhere close to a good example of those values. To me, that's kind of what it's all about.

Speaker 1: 39:43

Yeah, I mean even just hearing you talk, tim, I was just trying to think of you know, again, looking back on the lessons in sports, you know it's discipline, it's leadership, it's sportsmanship, it's teamwork, it's being flexible, it's being able to accept failure, Because in sports I mean to be like a true winner, right, like what is it? You have to win the championship, okay, well, however many teams you're playing against, everyone else is considered a loser, right? So there's a lot of failure in sports you know, not only in the games but also in the practices too, like how many turnovers did you have, how many times did you screw up or miss a block, miss an assignment, things like that. It's just constant failure. It's almost like it teaches you to have a short memory, because if you continuously dwell on the mistakes that you're making which you know we are constantly making mistakes it's just going to drain you and then paralyze you to not be able to make the right decision when that same event or occurrence happens again. There's the same thing in our spiritual life as well. You know fear, you know. I was given a talk a few weeks ago at a men's conference and we talked about Father Dalmoney talked about fear, and how often fear, so many times, paralyzes us and leads us to a decision that we normally wouldn't make if we were not fearful. We were not fearing failure or inadequacy or being alone or whatever the case might be, whatever we fear. And so I think you know, always looking back, I mean that's why I love the examination of conscious every night. It's something that I highly encourage all men to pursue is that because you can look back on your day, look on your successes, give glory to God for your successes, but then look back on the times that you screwed up and say, okay, how could I have been better? How could I have? What can I learn from that same thing? And so same thing again. You mentioned priests were the other example of men who exhibited leadership, and I think I mean anyone just looking at any article on the church can see that the church is in a bit of a leadership hole or crisis, so to speak, and obviously there are amazing priests and bishops and carnos out there who are demonstrating good leadership. I guess kind of transition that to priests, tim how can we as lay fathers you working at TAN, me working as a physical therapist how can we support our priests and help them, encourage them to be the strong leaders that this church needs and also that will embolden us as lay people to be leaders as well?

Speaker 2: 42:22

Yeah, and I think that can be reversed too, right. Certainly, we're looking, I know I do, and I find it. It might not be 100% every Sunday in the pew, but a lot of homilies I certainly get reinforced and kind of reinvigorated, but I think we can do that in turn to priests for sure. Right, we stand up and we stand for the values of the church in our professional lives and our home lives. Number one I think you get your butt in the church every Sunday, right, that's what we can do. We make sure that we're living how we need to live our Catholic lives and we do our best with our kids and make sure that they're going in that direction, right. And then I think we have to have the humility to ask for help, to rely on priests for advice and show forgiveness and leniency and humility. Right, and understand that they're not perfect people either. And I think in the 21st century, james, where we have access to so much information and people get on social media and can type whatever they want to type right and air their frustrations, that the standard is just so ridiculous for a lot of people in leadership not just church leadership, but it definitely applies to church leadership too right and it just seems so counterintuitive Some of what I read, the comments all the time, and the judgment and the you know. I think that would be my next piece of advice. I guess, when you ask, what can we do as men, understand that, hey, we're not perfect and neither are leaders of our church, and God isn't calling them to be perfect. He's calling them and us to do our best. And we got to understand that we're all going to fall short and there are certainly things out there. I'm not saying that well, just let things be how they should be and let everybody get participation trophies and, yes, whatever decision ever made by any leader is a great one, and I'm not saying that there are certainly lines that can't be crossed and if that happens, then we have to stand up and say no, actually we think this is a bad decision and this is why and this is this is our side of things, what's yours? Just try to meet people with some grace and humility, man. I think that's the answer to your question. What we can do as men, as leaders from the male side of things, to stand up and to show that we support the church. Number one, right, and then it's leaders under that, assuming they are also following in the right directions and doing what needs to be done.

Speaker 1: 45:15

Yeah, tim, you're hitting the nail in the head. We do. We put our leaders, especially in the church, especially with the Pope, on this pedestal that he's supposed to be the perfect 100% of the time. And, like you said too, social media now, every little thing that is said by priests is posted. It doesn't take any consideration, context, I mean everyone. They look back on things they say, and I listened to some of my episodes that I wrote. I was like why did I say that? And it's like you know, you don't even think about it. And then you look back and again, you learn from it, though, and you talk to priests all the time. They're like oh yeah, like I've said, some stupid things from the pulpit, like, of course they're human, you know, like, and we expect, we expect them to be perfect, when we should be expecting us to be perfect, as God calls us to be, but of course, we know that we cannot be perfect, you know, until we get to heaven, but we should still be striving for that, and we should be helping our brothers, whether it's our lay people or our priests as well, and correcting them if needed, like you said, tim, and that's the sign of a good leader, as well as having a difficult conversation with your priests.

Speaker 2: 46:26

Because, again.

Speaker 1: 46:27

He might have said some. He didn't really even realize that he was saying. He's like, oh my gosh, you know you're right, and so calling that in a loving way first of all, but also having that correction is so, so key. And you know, again, going back to your coaching is that the same thing is is correcting in a loving way but also telling me, hey, you can't do it that way. So kind of going back to coaching, tim, since I brought it up, is, I guess for you this is more of a personal question what has kind of been a maybe a humbling or an unexpected experience or a learning opportunity that you have noticed just coaching your boys that you weren't maybe expecting, going into that coaching world.

Speaker 2: 47:09

Oh man, I had a. The one at the top of my list is really easy. It just happened about two weeks ago, maybe not even two weeks ago. So I've got a 10 and an eight year old. The eight year old made big coach pitch, all-star team, right. They go down to the state tournament really excited about this second game. Still got a chance to win it all. Two outs down, one run runners at second and third. I'm the pitcher, my kids the hitter, and he is. I could just tell when he came up there like he is feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders. I try to smile at him, try to loosen him up. I can see it's not working. Swings and misses on the first one and he takes a deep breath and watches his next one. Next pitch swings and misses like oh boy, we got two outs and he hasn't touched the ball. This kid's a pretty good player. Last time he struck out might have been when he was six. And then I throw him another pitch. And man, if he doesn't just miss it and he strikes out and he loses the game and immediately just absolutely in tears, right. And so I know he's crushed because he loves it. He's put everything into it and really works at it, and I just feel I couldn't feel worse for him, but go to him. I'm able since I'm on the field there, I'm able to be the first guy there and hug him, tell him I love him and I'm proud of him, and he is upset for a little while after the game. But you know, it's crazy how God works. On our way to the car, you can't get to the car from the field at this tournament without going by one very significantly large vehicle that is selling snow cones. And we asked him you want to get a snow cone? And he's still sniffling a little bit and says yeah, and so the line's pretty long, which happens to be a really good thing. I think we have to wait a few minutes and he gets a snow cone and say, all right, buddy, you want to go back to the hotel? Like no, let's go watch the other team that's playing. And so, like, at that moment I knew like hey, he's going to be better off for this. It was crushing, it was brutal. I struck out my own kid to kind of crush his dreams, right, but ultimately that handling disappointment and failure, and next time he's ever in a situation like that. He's going to be able to look back on it and have already gone through all of that and at eight years old already, he's going to be that much stronger for it. So, to me, the handling failure that you mentioned, being able to do it in the right ways and to show kids that our love for them is not results based right I'm not going to love you more if you get a hit or love you less if you strike out and the more that we can show our loved ones that they are loved unconditionally, just to have that opportunity to do it in sports and to have so many opportunities to do it through, you know, multiple games, practices, situations, whatever it is and to be able to be there with them through those, that's probably the one that certainly sticks out the most to me and probably will for the rest of my life.

Speaker 1: 51:18

Oh, what a beautiful start, and I could tell you're tearing up a little bit because of this. That's tough. Just how proud you were of your son, of how he handled that. And gosh again, that's just something that you just can't teach. It's just got to be learned. Almost you know, and you can talk about it back in. Like you said too, especially with boys, it's sometimes just got to. It's almost like you just got to let them fail. You know, and in your case you introduced the failure by striking out.

Speaker 2: 51:46

Your son Probably shouldn't have thrown the slider. That was probably a bad move. No, but my wife, my wife is so wise, she was watching and she was more nervous than both of us probably. She said she was saying prayers and she was like, please, please, let him get a hit. And then, as soon as it happened, she's like all right, like God allowed this to happen for a reason and she's totally right. And yeah, so impactful in so many ways and you know, a blessing in disguise, I think, is how I'm always going to is what I'm going to take from that.

Speaker 1: 52:19

Yeah, oh, man, that's I'm just. My heart breaks for your son just hearing that story. I actually have a similar story too is that I was actually in high school and same thing I got it was basketball and I got fouled and it was zero seconds left and we were down one and I missed both free throws.

Speaker 2: 52:36

Oh.

Speaker 1: 52:38

You know and but yeah, same thing you know and, as your son, I'm sure experience is that you know the whole situation. So people are like, oh yeah, I didn't know, like what was going on? Don't, don't bite me, you know, and so, yeah, like you feel the weight of your shoulders, you know, and but no, I miss. And the first one up to me was one of my coaches and he said and it just so happened, he was a coach that had coached me many years, it was one of the one of my good, good friends and he was a teammate. It was his dad that coached both of us for many years. And he came up to me, he just gave me a hug and he didn't need to. He wasn't a man of many words anyways, but he just said you know, don't worry about it, I love you, I'm proud of you, just shake it off. And that's all I needed to hear. You know. And of course he felt terrible too. But you know, coaches have. You know, because if a coach came up to you or came up to your son and just like reamed him for making a mistake or failing, like how how much different would he have taken that you know, like maybe he would have never played baseball again. You know, and you just don't know. Obviously it's a game of what ifs, but you know, our words and our actions really do mean a whole lot and I just love that. You just went up to him, you gave him a hug and said I love you and I'm proud of you. And you know, like our and what you said to Tim was love is not based on results. You know it's like what you do is never going to love. Make me love you less or love you more. You know, and so I think that's a key takeaway from from those of you listening tonight If you do have children is just loving your children. I mean, that's such an underrated part of what we do as as dads, especially Tim, isn't that is just loving your children and and being there for them? Like you said and you know, you took on the role of being a coach too, and I'm sure it wasn't something you really, or maybe you did want?

Speaker 2: 54:31

to. I know some dads.

Speaker 1: 54:32

They say, oh yeah, I didn't want to coach, but you know, I was like the only one that showed up, so they're like hey, you're the coach now, so good luck. What are we going to do here? But but no, just just recognizing the impact that we have on young people's lives, I think is a huge, huge lesson, I think, that could be taken away from here.

Speaker 2: 54:52

To know that, just for the record, I'm the annoying guy that loves being a coach Absolutely. Oh yeah, you're that guy, okay.

Speaker 1: 54:58

All right. So so what do you say? And before we started recording, you said whatever your boys play, you'll coach. But what are they? Are there sports that are kind of gearing tours that they're really into now, or is it just still kind of anything and everything?

Speaker 2: 55:13

Yeah, man, I'm going to let them play whatever they can play, for as long as they can play it. They they started playing flag football. That's what they have, like I didn't even have that as an opportunity to play, but you mentioned, you know, being men and boys, and I think flag football, there's something like there. It really speaks to young males, like just the the nature of the game. You get to huddle up, you get to be physical right, you get to have a little bit of direction, and then you get to go run and then you get to come back and try to get. There is something I've noticed more than other sports, because they play baseball, they play basketball, they played soccer, but that that flag football, just the structure of it, there is something that speaks specifically to young, young boys Like my. My kids have played like from five years now my oldest one is 10. So for five years old to 10, and it's just it's amazing to see them play and, like I said, I just try to kind of stay out of their way and just let them, you know, have as much fun as possible and and they do and it's great, I love it, man.

Speaker 1: 56:17

Amazing. Amen, amen, gosh. Yeah, well, we'll have to have you on Tim and you can just share some of your your sports stories as well, but I did want to you know, as we sort of wrap up here with with going back to Tan, are there any books in particular that you have found helpful personally that you have have read from? I know there's so many you can probably list 10 off the top of your head but is there one, maybe even two in particular that you've noticed has really touched you, maybe personally or spiritually?

Speaker 2: 56:46

Yeah, it's a great question. I'll say off the top, imitation of Christ in this Tan Classics Deluxe Set is certainly the one I'm most familiar with. I will not tell you that I've read it cover to cover, because it's not even designed to be that kind of book, but to me it's an amazing mix of a book written 500 plus years ago and you can tell it in a lot of times. But then sometimes, man, it's just like some of these chapters have about like 20 words. They're, they're, they're named like 20 words, half the words I don't even understand. But then, like, there's one chapter I think, called a four things, four peaceful things, and another one that says in an old English way basically mind your own business. So to me that that's the best example of what what Tan books is in my life right now. It is typically written by a Catholic doctor of the church or saint many, many years ago, but every time I get exposed to it I feel like I can pull something that is very relevant in my life and say, oh yeah, that that guy thought the same thing that I do when I went around the corner and went to the gas station or whatever. He thought that 500 years ago in Europe, when they were being either persecuted or just thinking about being in the monastery, whatever it was. It's amazing to me how much it can apply just to to everyday life all these years later.

Speaker 1: 58:28

Yeah, inmitation of Christ is something that I've picked up at least three times, when I again started reading, for, you know, a few weeks, but, yeah, it is so rich in in meaning and depth, and, yeah, it's definitely a text where you can read it and you can chew on that for weeks, just like one little paragraph, like you said, 20 words and 10 words. You came out and understand. You're like Googling and looking it up and what's the meaning of this? And and that's again that's the beauty of these classics, though, is, and something that, as a culture, too, we've we've lost, I think, is that we want everything, boom, boom, boom. We want to understand and digest everything, but I think just sitting, like you said, sitting with a book and just kind of being with it, it's such a lost art in this day and age, and it's something our brain really needs, because we're just gosh constantly bombarded with with messages and notifications, and it just our brain is just overloaded, and so sitting down and reading good quality books is something that it can only be enlightening and enriching for our souls and our general well-being too.

Speaker 2: 59:34

You've been to that.

Speaker 1: 59:34

Well, tim, tell us, as we kind of wrap up here, where people can find more about you, where people can find these books, the, the podcasts that you mentioned, and we'll, we'll ask you one more question and we'll, we'll get going.

Speaker 2: 59:50

Don't go looking for anything else about me, you don't want to do that. Go to tanbookscom, the place to go just for our main website, and then, if you want to check out the podcasts, the Tan Commentaries podcast specifically, is just tancommentariescom. But we also have a website called tandirectioncom that kind of combines everything. If you were looking for any kind of really spiritual direction in general or just direction for tan, tandirectioncom is a good place to do that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:20

Perfect, and I will link, leave a link in the show notes for all of you guys as well, so you can take a take a peek at all those. So, tim, last question I have for you In your opinion, was it mean to be a manly Catholic?

Speaker 2: 1:00:35

That's a great question, you know. I think I I used this line of thinking at least when people would ask me or were asking me about my decision to basically get get fired in my previous job, right To to not get vaccinated, and I I said there was no way I was going to be able to look my kids in the eye as a father or a man if I was going to allow someone to make that decision for me. So to me, what a manly Catholic is is knowing what is expected of us by God, what we are called to be, being as faithful to that as absolutely humanly possible, and knowing that we are not in charge, and so we are also to be obedient to the church at the same time. And that's a tricky thing, right. So you got to stand up for what you believe in and you have to be authoritative and a leader and all of that. And that requires a sense of pride, right. And then you have to take it up to the line and then realize, you know, actually humility is probably the the founding virtue of them all, right. And you better be able to to bend that knee and understand that you're not in charge and the church absolutely is and God absolutely is, and you have to do your best to follow and to to obey. That's my long-winded answer for that one, jay. Oh, no gosh.

Speaker 1: 1:02:24

I mean. I love the answer, though, tim, because you know that's actually a really interesting thought experiment too is if you, you know, have a big decision like you did, obviously is like, do I get this, this vaccine, because I have a good job, I love my job, I love my job, but but then again, you know, down the down the line you know 10, 20, 30 years, whatever you know, eventually that is probably going to come up with a conversation with your children is like, can you look at them? Can you be proud I guess not in a prideful way, but can you proud of that decision that you made and say, well, I got this, even though I actually whole hardly did not believe in it and I knew it was something that you know kind of went against what I believed in by did anyways, because of its job, and you know, it's almost like a, a feeling of a shame or regret, almost is that, when we make these decisions that we might do based on for the wrong reasons, versus you know, is this a foundational decision I'm going to make, based on the teachings of the church, based on today pray about this decisions often something that gets overlooked as well. So I love that is. I want to be able to look my children in the eyes and, be you know, tell them this is why I made the decisions, because I stood up for what I believed in. So that's such a powerful witness. So, thank you, thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:36

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:03:38

Well, tim, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for your time Again. We're going to have to have you on again and we'll just we'll just chat about sports for about three hours and we'll call the day.

Speaker 2: 1:03:49

Next time I will give you a two hour and 45 minutes soliloquy while. Why Michael Jordan much better than Kobe Bryant on the hierarchy of basketball?

Speaker 1: 1:03:59

Okay, In my defense I never said that Kobe was above Michael.

Speaker 2: 1:04:03

Okay, fair, fair, fair.

Speaker 1: 1:04:05

Fair. I said I grew up with Kobe. Kobe got Michael with the talent of his career.

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

So that's.

Speaker 1: 1:04:12

I would agree, though, mj is yeah, but maybe for the sake of having you back on, I will say Kobe Bryant is better than Michael, and then I'll just let you. I'll just let you answer the question for me.

Speaker 2: 1:04:23

Nobody wants to hear that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:26

All right everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Manly Catholic. So go out there and be a saint.